By Demi ElGato
Possum Print Games
OSE
Levels 3-6
Verzogen Vald is a twisted forest surrounded by impassable, jagged peaks. Folk that go in almost never come back out. One man has, but in his two weeks in those woods, he looks to have aged decades. His memory is not completely reliable, and his fellow lumberjacks think him insane. Though, they are disconcerted by his unnaturally fast aging, and his stories of what lurks in those woods. Every two hours, the great Green Dragon, Viridis, flies over the Vald, her domain. This is enough to keep all but the most foolish wanderers away. One of the most foolish, the heir apparent to the throne, 12 year old Prince Lukas, delved into those woods one week ago, alone. The King has posted a standing reward of 5,000gp for any brave enough to retrieve him. So far, none have been that brave…or that desperate.
This twelve page adventure uses five pages to describe ten point crawl locations in a fanciful forest. It seems a little pointless, the combination of fetch quests with a dragon at the end. But, if you’re ok with that, then fight on, it’s not bad except for the lack of adventure.
“Too Much stabbin!” or “Not enough stabbin!” Stabbing is a means to end, the ultimate way to get the treasure and remove obstacles when all else fails, or you just feel like today. A typical adventure needs a good balance. Situations and all types of conflict vs the expediency of a good stabbin. You can stab all adventure, with a good sneak in and magical plot to get in deeper and tactical assault/lair raid. You can do no stabbin with some situations good enough with nuance to for the party to work their way around … and stab their way out of. But, generally, you gotta think the whole thing through, as a designer, and work out a way for things to include the potential for stabbin and not stabbin.
This adventure don’t do that, mostly. You see from the intro that the kings kid is missing. In to the forest you go, to look for him and get the reward, while avoiding the dragon that flies overhead every two hours. Unlike Gon FIshin’, there is no stream of do gooders out for a reward; it’s just you in the forest. Not the best set up, but, we’ll forget that for the sake of expediency, while wishin for some Fishin.
Most of the adventure has you visiting points in the forest with someone who wants something and has something. The vampire (yes, vampire) has wine and wants a goat. The goatherd has a goat but wants a lot of gold and/or some nearby bears killed. The kobolds want to be vassals of the dragon again and.or some silks. They all wants something and have something. Mixed in an occasional combat like an undead dude or two and some plants, that’s about it. So, you gonna run around and give the blue key to Bob who will give you a Red key to give to Sally and so on. It’s all a little too set. Combine that with the lack of specific numbers of kobolds, etc in the adventure and its clear you’re supposed to talk to people and do some horse tradin. No stabin. Except when explicitly told you can stab, like the rando undead or plants.
Reaching the last point, the dragons lair, this all comes to a head. The dragon wants followers. Like the kobolds. The dragon has a lot of gold. And the kings son, the prince. Critically, if you get the dragon what it wants it will let you leave, but not the prince. There IS no solution here, ultimately, for the dragon and prince, except stabbin. Everything else you do accomplished nothing. Oh, sure, if the elves teach the cavemen to sing then tey will teach you to read some glyphs which will help the wizard trying to decrypt some glyphs which will cause him to toss you a gem of seeing. But that didn’t help kill the dragon. It is an adventure in two parts. Wander around the woods performing fetch quests and then stab a dragon. The two are essentially unrelated. This irks me. The kabuki.
There’s another mechanism at play here that mixes in. Every two hours the party will age ninety days. It takes, essentially, one hour to cross a tiles borders. This means that if you go straight to the dragon and stab it then you age six months, based on the initial map. But that’s not going to happen, right? The party is going to fuck around with the side quests. And then, also, the map shifts every two hours, like a maze. So you’re gonna have to figure that out, perhaps with some clues from the adventure. Figuratively, and perhaps literally, a waster of time. There is a clue, up front, that the forest ages you, but the maze situation, as well as the social commentary on the ultimate futility of the struggles of life, well, that one you entirely.
The maze, fetch quests, dragon, and aging don’t mesh well together, I don’t think. Other than the assisination, though, the play is fine. A barbed wire fence, that you can catch tetanus from! I love scary real world shit tossed in a game. Dragonpos can go fuck itself but TETNUS resonates, yeah? And, frankly, a lot of the fetch quest shit is not bad. Maybe a little simplistic and lacking, ahum, alternate solutions, but it IS there, if a little overt for my tastes. Telegraphed, I guess. The fanciful nature of them is a little off, in my opinion. A vampire that wears a sun hat out. A kobold that speaks seven languages in a kobold village that sounds more like a halfling village. A wizard who teleports in and out of the forrest every hour, but can’t do a comprehend languages. It’s just straining thinsg a bit too much. I hate to bring up comparison adventures, but THAT OTHER ONE had a somewhat fanciful nature as well. But it was clear there was some farce. And it was grounded. People were idiots. The fanciful stuff seemed to mesh well in tha the elements it used did no seem random.
I don’t know. I guess this one is ok. I mean, I hate a lot about it, but, at least you can comprehend what is going on and follow along and there IS something to do. Hmmm, I guess I mean there are situations here, even if I do think they are simplistic, and that helps a lot.
Sucker! Ain’t no stats for the dragon! Ha! Got ya!
This is Pay What You Want at DriveThru with a suggested price of $3.33. There’s no fucking preview. Put in a fucking preview that shows us some of the content before we have to spend money on the thing!
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/581381/the-matriarch-of-verzogen-vald?1892600
I’m not buying an adventure about a dragon with stats for the dragon. Even if the designer doesn’t want me to fight it, my bunch of 5th levels and a few henchmen might want to try…
A way less lame hook would be the king is marching part of his army down to beat this dragon down, it’s gonna take them 3 days to get here. There’s an opportunity before then offered by the local Baron/barons ambitious 3rd son to get in there first, grab the prince and all the honours the king might bestow on you + the dragons hoard.
Time pressure without the ageing crap. AND a potential leverage against the dragon, do you _tell_ it there’s an army marching down? Would it be scared or confident it could smoke all their asses? Both are interesting, one to maybe snag the prince and offer the tame kobolds instead or something.
The other because if you bargain your own escape from the dragon for warning about the incoming king and his army (because why not have him be an active reckless badass for once) and the dragon smokes the king and a core part of the army and you’ve just joined up with an ambitious baron… that’s interesting and your soon to be level 6s are getting some hooks in for domain play…
Also the kobolds _should_ be a hobbit village who are in the first stage of going all Gollumy for the dragon, all of them. That’s way freakier- free them (replace one of the lamer side quests) or doom them all to deepest golumny and sell them to tha dragon?
By then you’ve made a whole other adventure though. And still need to stat the dragon yourself if you take option 3- stabbin.
*without* stats for the dragon
Cool ideas. Way to show how to add immediate stakes and lay ground work for future (domain) play. I agree this is wholly underdeveloped, and an onerous task to prepare it for the table.
Thanks. Kinda mentally stowing away the map and 2 hour patrol idea for later though (Dragon super active when it’s “on”, then might be drowsy or sleep for long periods.
Um, something about a ban, ts preferences.
Welcome. I’m still mulling the time dilation.
So the dragon at the end of the module, featured prominently on the cover, who is, essentially, the subject of the adventure (or, at least, presented as the End Threat), doesn’t even have stats? Even if the party is intended to parley and, perhaps, trade something they’ve found along the way – literally *anything* can happen in a D&D session including the very-foreseeable gambit of “Get the Dragon!”
OSE has green dragons. This isn’t difficult.
This is like a deconstructed dungeon. No thank you.
Unsurprisingly, this author is the new moderator on reddit that has banned all mention of Melan. So at least you can take solace in the fact that he knows he’s a fucking hack that can’t compete.
> reddit that has banned all mention of Melan
Huh? What subreddit is that? What’s the story there?
reddit.com/r/osr is where the ban is taking place.
The guy that wrote this piece of crap had this to say about his new ban on Gabor Lux/Melan:
> u/Ultragrey 1d ago
Is it transphobic if a reddit user recommends Castle Xyntillan?
> u/DemiElGato1997
1d ago
In this circumstance, yes.
The ban includes any mention of Echoes of Fomalhaut and Fight On as well – no mention of any works or his name or you risk an insta-ban. So Gabor Lux is also on the do not mention / blacklist as of yesterday, because he is “a fascist and a transphobe.” (another quote from the discussion, i can’t be bothered to clip it).
I am very (very) glad I stopped reading reddit. I only went there just now to find out the root reasoning – not that I needed to see it in black and white, because this is always the reason, but you asked and I couldn’t resist a little self-flagellation.
Melan’s transphobic?
I am responding only to clarify that my post was to represent the statements made on reddit by others, including the author of the module being reviewed. I’m absolutely making no claim whatsoever about Melan’s politics, nor do I care.
To be “transphobic” that word would actually have to mean something instead of being a weasel word that has no other purpose than to automatically dismiss and slander the target.
….like most other “phobe” and “ist” words, in fact. If you can just label some as a bigot, then you don’t need to consider the reasons for their position or feel obliged to allow them into your psychological hugbox where they might damage your fragile worldview or cognitive dissonance. Very handy!
@SMH
A word that’s defined in every dictionary has no meaning? “Psychological hugbox”? What in the absolute fuck are you talking about?
And how do you damage cognitive dissonance? It’s a mental incongruence! It IS the damage! Do you even know what cognitive dissonance means, or are you just saying things you’ve heard in proximity to other conversations about bigotry?
It’s a very straightforward question, easily answered – does Melan have a problem with trans people, or doesn’t he? Yes or no will suffice, and his is the only response that matters, despite however much absurd nonsense you dribble out onto your keyboard.
@DangerousPuhson
I think you know exactly what I mean, despite your histrionic protests otherwise.
The OSR reddit…and OSR Discord, for that matter…act like “safe-spaces” (I’m going to call them psychological hugboxes, because I think it better captures the intent; feel free to dislike the term) where people are banned purely because they may express beliefs that the moderators feel would threaten their fragile delusions or intensify their cognitive dissonance. Yes, I worded that awkwardly, that’s on me, but again, I think you know what I meant, whether you agree with it or not. Regardless, it is certainly their right to ban as they please.
“does Melan have a problem with trans people, or doesn’t he?”
So the term transphobe just means “has a problem with trans people?”
Would that have to be all trans people, universally, for any reason, just for existing?
Would it include questionable things some trans people might advocate for or heinous crimes they might celebrate?
Would include legislation they might support which would affect non-trans people?
In your most charitable moment, could you at least admit there might be a little room for nuance here before just demanding a yes-or-no confession of transphobia?
Nuance is irrelevant. You’re either perfectly fine with trans people existing, or you aren’t. I think you know what I mean, despite your grandiloquent protests otherwise.
The question was simple, but I’ll break it down further for your benefit (consider it a “charitable moment”):
The question is – “Yes or no: does Melan have a problem with trans people?”
“Problem” = difficulty with, or distress regarding
“Trans people” = people who are transgendered
I hope that clears things up for you. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
@DangerousPuhson
“Nuance is irrelevant. You’re either perfectly fine with trans people existing, or you aren’t.”
This is exactly what I’m talking about. There are plenty of contentious issues surrounding transgenderism which even people inside the trans community are divided. When you try to boil this all down to a ridiculous either-or with a demand for yes-no answer, you aren’t actually trying to get at any truth. You are looking for Melan to either grovel or confess.
>You are looking for Melan to either grovel or confess.
I am looking for a comment from Melan on the matter. If that comment involves groveling or confession, that’s his call to make. He could also comment “yes, I have a problem with them” or “no, I have no problem with them”, and that would be equally sufficient to answer my very simple question.
Debating the subtleties of the question is not what I’m interested in. The time for debating nuance is after he’s responded, not before.
It is important to state empathetically that DP is not, nor has he ever been, a serious person in any place he is allowed to inhabit. There is no reason for him to be in the OSR, his main advocacy on the forums is along the lines of 5e, and he was probably removed from those ranks for something odious and vile. While he has remained here, he has done nothing of note, except waste people’s time and litter in the tenfootpole’s comment’s section.
In his interactions he is malicious and cruel to the meek, evasive and cowardly to the strong. When confronted with his ramshackle argumentation or bad behavior, he begins reflexively lying and panicks like a trapped weasel. He contributes nothing but noise to any discussion that lacks the sensibility to silence him and evict his noxious presence, which is comparatively easy because he lacks character.
It is unclear if he has any positions of his own, but very likely he simply parrots what are considered to be acceptable opinions so he continue this malicious pattern of abuse and incompetence under a thin veneer of moral camouflage.
lol top trolling steve
Shut up pussy.
Just took a look at this and I’m not sure how it avoided a tag of shame? I guess because it’s pwyw. But this shit is quintessential non-game wank for moronic slopguzzlers and deserves no regard. How is it that despite innumerable examples these motherfuckers still fall so short of basic competence?
He’s just talking about the OSR subreddit, not all of reddit.
I once held the position that you shouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth but this is just littering at this point. Ugh.
Diamonds form with time and pressure.
And I think there is a real nifty adventure germinating here. It’s overlooked -and not correctly parsed – but, it is here.
The Time Dilation:
“Every two hours the party will age ninety days.”
It works out that time runs 2,160 times faster in the forest.
Rip Van (our lumberjack) aged 42 years from his two week stay.
Gaining 21 years, our twelve year old Prince has ripened to a mature man of 33. Now a seasoned ranger nicknamed Strider (LoTR), or Modred -EXCALIBUR. And if not now physically older than his royal father (Pandorum 2009 movie) is now his peer in age.
After six months (1,080), Our green dragon has aged to the ancient category. Aging at over 180 years per month.
While Tolkien’s immortal elves could stay, AD&D grey elves get under two years. (4,320) Mountain Dwarves get about two months (360). Ogres get four weeks-& 3 days (90). Orcs get two weeks.
Way back in the 1980’s, the Mayfair Games; RoleAids supplement “Dark Folk” had a goblin adventure. Where this powerful goblin tribe was tied to a cave system fed by a natural spring. The spring was a Fountain of Youth. Trouble was, the age prevention catastrophically reversed when you left the area of the fountain. (Indiana Jones, The Last Crusade) The ageless creatures survived only in prison.
Every 8 hours you age 1 year.
If our Prince left and walked out at the adventures start he ages another six months.
The possibilities for this effect rippling through the adventure are staggering.
“Every two hours, the great Green Dragon, Viridis, flies over the Vald, her domain.”
“A wizard who teleports in and out of the forrest every hour, but can’t do a comprehend languages.”
What if the dragon, and our wizard (Merlin) exist in normal time. The dragon now patrols her forrest every six months-merlin is not teleporting in every hour – he teleporting every three months.
“Wolverines” (Red Dawn 1984)
How does time based healing work in the forrest? If wounds are healed over time, -Do the characters gain Wolverines healing power? Or do they bleed out from a paper cut?
Additionally, nice use of language-
verzogen :
(strong nominative masculine singular verzogener, comparativeverzogener, superlative am verzogensten)
1. (of wood etc.) warped (twisted out of its original shape)
2. (of a child) spoilt, badly reared
3. (of a tenant, inhabitant) having moved to another place
Vald :
can mean a “ruler” or “power” as a name origin,
Crotalus viridis:
The prairie rattlesnake[3][4] or Great Plains rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis) is a
Anyways, I think this neat idea, and I’ll be mulling it over for a while.
Well hell. I just worked on this post after reading the review yesterday. Did a cover the things you wanted to highlight. Yup. Cool hit post.
Shit
There a war on
I missed all the bru-ha-ha
I wasn’t banned from r/genewolfe and r/ShittyGeneWolfe. I’m good.
With fire and sword, we shall win against these sad they/thems, and restore the great works of lost civilisations such as hex-crawls with over 7 hexes, megadungeons with over 20 rooms, thoughts that perhaps can’t be expressed in a single line, and so on and so forth! Greatness awaits beyond the horizons! Onwards! Onwards! .)
Swords Bright
IFYKYK
Onwards indeed. Thanks for being a part of this community.
Love Journey Quest!!!
You know, you could have taken ‘the high road’ and said something about censorship or freedom of speech. Instead you have to say “With fire and sword, we shall win against these sad they/thems”. While there’s some whimsy in the expression, you’re calling it a battle against people who aren’t harming you; they’re just different.
Your conduct makes me a ban supporter.
Oh please, if they could harm him they would. Banning mention of an author’s work in the chief public discussion forum related to his work isn’t a fucking neutral act, you prissy cunt.
Is the “they/thems” those specific redditards or gender nonconformists generally?
It’s people who adopt an identity and (taking a page from Marx) proclaim themselves to be an “oppressed class”. This is then used as an excuse to behave abominably towards anyone classified as an “oppressor”.
In this case banning Melan and forming a mob to call him names is a childish attempt to silence his free speech, the freedom of speech of everyone who might wish to discuss his adventures (threats of banning are a “you’re next” mob intimidation tactic), and damage his business by preventing him from promoting his products on Reddit.
If criticized, these people are the first to play the “poor me” identity pity card, just like every primary school bully who cries when someone finally stands up to them. Given that his adventures are some of the best in the OSR, envy is probably also a motivation for attacking him.
To “Another Centrist guy”:
We all “adopt identities”. Some people – including transpeople – are oppressed.
We can probably all agree that Melan does fantastic work. I think banning him from r/OSR was probably wrong (based on the benign contributions I’ve seen from him in that subreddit). But he has chosen to make “anti-woke/anti-trans crusader” part of his public identity. That’s going to make him unwelcome in some communities. You can always start another OSR subreddit – I think there’s a chance for one to do OK as long as it was moderated to be apolitical rather than a culture war swamp.
Trying to elide his culture war position with his (laudable) adventure design principles should be embarrassing for someone as intelligent as him. It’s a common rhetorical tactic among his associates and it’s always BS.
“Trying to elide his culture war position with his (laudable) adventure design principles should be embarrassing for someone as intelligent as him. It’s a common rhetorical tactic among his associates and it’s always BS.”
Only this section is worth commenting upon.
There are two mechanisms at play.
* Adventure popularity is an arms race. Quality is only one front. There are plenty of creators that are not exemplary, but that are very skilled at audience cultivation. In the case of many far-left creators like Yochai Gal, Micah Anderson or the aforementioned creator above, they clearly lack anything but the most rudimentary adventure design skills. So their tactic is not to compete on skill, but to disqualify their rivals by calling them immoral, or even to import other people that also have no interest in DnD. This has been the story of the OSR since 2014 onward.
* It is interesting to observe that most of the pioneering work which was done during the early, more centrist days of the OSR (take, for example the repopularization of Megadungeons) has survived the test of time and is still worthwhile while much of the later work produced by the, by then largely leftist OSR, is gimmicky, flashy and worthless to anyone interested in D&D (Proceduralism, Dice Drops, 5 room dungeons, Ruleslites etc.). Conversely, some of the more politically conservative contributors like Gabor or Alex Macris have created enduring works, solving real but often less glamorous problems. It is not a given that temperament and philosophy, which is a predictor for political affiliation, has no impact on one’s game design philosophy, even if we take into account that many of the purple OSR creators must perform their labor under a deluge of serotonin reuptake inhibitors, painkillers, aids inhibitors and broad-spectrum antibiotics.
There are of course charming exceptions.
The high road is actually refusing to indulge the harmful (to self and others) mental illness of trannies just to maintain a marketing channel for his products.
no thats the cunt road
Jojo, for the benefit of the jury, please point on the doll where the gender dysphoria touched you inappropriately.
Or does your outdated, bimodal worldview stem from some inner demons that you’re trying desperately to suppress? Well I’m here to tell you it’s ok now. You’re allowed to wear the frilly dress Jojo, only the small-minded will mock you for it.
Why, thank you for your sincere and well-intentioned comment that was made in obvious good faith to remind me of “the high road!” And to think I was probably very close to swaying you.
However, the record must be corrected. Not only was I in fact saying something about freedom of speech by exercising mine (and about our patient host, who actually seems to believe in the idea), I was doing so while respecting the author’s preferred pronouns! If that isn’t “the high road”, I don’t know what is.
Congratulations, you also got me from incensed at the ban to two that deserve each other
Oh hey, look neo nazi coping and seething about being rightfully banned from plebbit. Your ilk should get banned from breathing as well. 🙂
“Neo nazi”?
Your position isn’t helped by that sort of silliness.
Mythic says: “Oh please, if they could harm him they would.”
Anon says: “Your ilk should get banned from breathing as well. ?”
Nice work, Anon, you sure didn’t take long to provide an example of Mythic’s point!
Dude, don’t you have a business to run? Do you want to be the next James Raggi? Stop alienating half your customers and go write the next Echoes from Fomalhaut.
Funny how this “business advice” only ever cuts one way. Very transparent, and has the nasty whiff of some pinstripe suit Sicilian advising you on how to avoid getting your business burned to the ground.
However, bringing up James Raggi is a good case, actually, because what these nasty motherfuckers did to James was the dirtiest thing that happened in this slice of gaming. James was a kind guy all around who went out of his way to give opportunities to leftist creators from muh “marginalised backgrounds”, paid generously, and paid on time. The same people responded by casting him out for posing for a picture with a milquetoast lifestyle influencer like Jordan Peterson, and trying to destroy his busines and reputation over it.
There is a lot that’s water off a duck’s back – I can dish it out and take it – but I will never forgive or forget that one, because James is a good man who suffered a great injustice. He is the Roscoe Arbuckle of our hobby, who deserved better and got the worst.
So no. I will not shut up, not now, and not ever.
“Very transparent”
Transparent in what way? Because if you imputed any motive other than “Fuck these culture wars are stupid and I don’t want to lose another good content creator to them”, then you have misjudged the situation.
It’s transparently a threat, typical of someone shaking you down for money, “do what I say or else.” In your case, saying “you don’t want to be the next James Raggi, right?”
Typical dialogue of a thug and an extortionist.
Yeesh, you people. I am so sick of both sides. Shut up and go to your rooms ALL OF YOU!
Well, that escalated quickly.
I’ll call people wtf they want to be called, no skin off my nose. Do your thing and I’ll do mine. But it’s effing weird banning people from an rpg board because of their perceived political or cultural stances.
People are allowed not to like or support other people. We can agree or disagree. Unless someone is calling for harm or discrimination- fair play.
From someone who leans more to the love is love, you do you camp.
People get banned from places. Sometimes deservedly so, sometimes not. But it’s in the prerogative of the moderator to do so; literally their entire function. That’s why banning is a base feature included in every online space since forever. You can’t poke a beehive and then cry about stings.
I was banned from the 10footpole forum by Prince once, back when he was the moderator. Maybe he was right, maybe he wasn’t (hint: that latter one), but I won’t argue that it wasn’t in his prerogative as the moderator to do so. However I do find it pretty funny how all these “free speech” folk out here were real fucking silent about it. Melan included.
Yup. Pretty funny. Ha-fucking-ha.
Prince is obnoxious but you seem like a whiny bitch so I have to imagine your ban was well earned. Its also understandable that no one came to your defense because you’re not a 20-year pillar of the OSR being banned from the reddit community wearing the OSR name like a skinsuit. A reddit community moderated by hacks like the above author who conspire against the productive parts of the hobby out of jealousy, knowing they cannot compete otherwise.
Each one of these censorious doofuses is the standard type of downward-mobile loser who gravitate to extreme leftist politics because it allows them to vent their bilious resentment against their betters and who adopt fringe identities because it gives them an excuse for their failures to avoid admitting they squandered their immense privilege as the white sons of the western bourgeois.
“Whiny bitch”? Ok bud. I’m not the one who pisses himself in fear whenever he hears words like “nonbinary”, “trans”, or “DEI”. You can’t even handle someone calling themselves “Jennell” without suffering an aneurysm. Talk about fragile. And you say *I’m* the bitch?
>Each one of these censorious doofuses is the standard type of downward-mobile loser who gravitate to extreme leftist politics because it allows them to vent their bilious resentment against their betters and who adopt fringe identities because it gives them an excuse for their failures to avoid admitting they squandered their immense privilege as the white sons of the western bourgeois.
In the parlance of your bigoted people: “Are you triggered, snowflake? Well then fuck off back to your safe space and cry moar, cuck”.
You’re appear to be legitimately schizophrenic and absolutely nothing you said bears any relation to the topic or my opinions, expressed or otherwise. I hope you live in a civilized country where you can get the help you need.
@Mazirian
You called me a whiny bitch and bemoaned “extreme leftist politics” (something that only one group of people ever worries about).
But way to try and weasel out of your own words.
If /OSR is fake, why are you there? Go to /theosr.
Banning someone for being an witless boor incapable of making meaningful contributions must be differentiated from banning someone for having a political opinion that is otherwise separate from any hobby activity.
I’m going to try something. Hold on.
As reddit is open to view for anyone, you could check for yourself the reason. “He is blacklisted because any mention of him devolves into shit slinging political talk”, although he is called “transphobic” and an “author” by the mod. This line of reasoning obviously opens up a heckler’s veto, but on the other hand Melan seems to be happy to jump into the culture war trenches from the other side.
The suggested reason is patently false, his modules are routinely discussed and recommended without any “shit flinging.” It is also obviously bad faith; if you responded to every mention of Gavin Norman or some nusr darling I can’t even name with some vague accusation of racial bias, you know exactly who would be moderated.
And I’d challenge you to find a single public post of Melan jumping in the “culture war trenches” in lets say a year prior to this incident. I don’t read every blog post, but I just see him talk about and publish games, unlike just about all the american-politics-obsessed losers that hate him. Maybe you can find some examples of his “culture warring” if you dig, but its wild you just made that shit up on the spot. Truly a wonder why you and the grifters you defend are so despised.
Look above, there he is. I don’t want anything to do with either side of the culture war, and I despise people like you that want to make me choose. Leave that shit in the US, thank you very much.
Yep, it’s so tiring. I’d just like to read adventure reviews and comments about a game involving made-up shit. To those who turn everything into a moral, political, or tribal battle on a niche blog about a niche hobby, please do one.
You’re stabbing at ghosts man. I’m neither american (see my criticism of “american-politics-obsessed losers”) nor am I asking you choose a side in their culture war. I criticized you for hallucinating some shit about Melan, just as you now “despise” me for some shit you hallucinated about me. I don’t give a shit about their culture war, I care about ideological commissars gaining control of a public discussion forum and banning discussion of one of the best adventure authors in the community.
The only people demanding anything from anyone are the lunatics demanding ideological conformity from every author of elfgame shit. The only thing I’ve seen from Melan is some lashing out this week at the losers censoring him for ideological impurity, which cannot be the basis for his ban for reasons of temporal causation. And which is entirely understandable, given that I too am lashing out at those losers despite my own ideological intuitions being closer to theirs than to Melan’s.
“This is Pay What You Want at DriveThru with a suggested price of $3.33. There’s no fucking preview. Put in a fucking preview that shows us some of the content before we have to spend money on the thing!”
You say in the same sentence that it’s pay what you want, no-one is being forced to spend money anything. Been doing this how many years and don’t understand how pay what you want works Bryce?
>> There IS no solution here, ultimately, for the dragon and prince, except stabbin.
Earlier in the review:
>> Every two hours, the great Green Dragon, Viridis, flies over the Vald, her domain.
Very funny that this thread is already 50+ comments, many of which are arguing the points that were exact reason for the reddit ban. It’s almost like the mods there had a justifiable reason for their decision…
Truth. What people fail to understand is that bans are not typically “you and I differ, so you’re not allowed here”; usually they are “you are disruptive to this place, so your presence is not welcome”. That’s not suppression of free speech – that’s fostering harmony so that the community can continue in its mandate of promoting fruitful dialogue and cooperation.
Fwiw, I haven’t seen Melan be obnoxious on r/OSR (or the rest of Reddit) itself. And I haven’t seen significant drama on the subreddit around him either, beyond a user occasionally suggesting people shouldn’t support a transphobe after someone recommends Castle Xyntillan (which is obviously a totally valid position). I’ve never seen his fans even push back significantly on that.
But I accept I might have missed something awful. Has anyone seen something like this kick off on r/OSR? If not, it does
It does seem unfair to use this drama on a different site with different standards, provoked by the ban, as evidence that the ban was justified.
Weird hanging “if not, it does” left in there. Ignore it.
I’m also not familiar with the circumstances of Melan’s ban because I don’t participate in that particular subreddit, and it doesn’t help that highly-controversial posts are swiftly deleted by mods to maintain order. Heck, until this comment section, I didn’t even know he was problematic. So there’s no smoking gun I can point to as evidence, which is why I’d love to hear from the man himself about the circumstances.
That being said, Reddit bans happen daily; sometimes warranted, sometimes not. But in every instance it happens because the harmony of the subreddit is disrupted. I’m sure more than a few r/OSR folk side with Melan, especially those in the “we can separate the artist from his works” camp, but ultimately if he shows up and chaos ensues, it’s only natural that he’s going to get banned in order to keep the peace.
His opinions and what he’s posted in Reddit are irrelevant at this point – his very presence stirs up shit, so they keep him out, alongside mentions of him which stir up residual shit (and in a ouroboros way, his ban for stirring up shit is what probably stirs new shit, like the shit stirred in this very comment section).
Melan is allowed to be uncomfortable about trans people – everyone holds controversial opinions. The intention is not to thought-police him and wipe bigotry from his mind; rather the intention is to shelter a community which gets riled up when he shows his face. I’d love to get his side of the story, but seeing as he showed up here with “we shall win against these sad they/thems”, I’m not exactly convinced his position is just a simple misunderstanding.
Had Melan kept his views to himself, it wouldn’t have been an issue. We wouldn’t be talking about it now, and mentions of him in r/OSR would be business as usual. But he didn’t do that. He said something that didn’t need to be said out loud, and he’s eating the fallout of that action.
Like all people with an audience, you need to watch what you say; you can’t just expect a positive response just because people are listening. He’s apparently made it known that he holds these highly-polarizing beliefs, and just expecting everyone to be cool with that because “free speech” or “he writes good books” is the rationale of people who don’t understand how reality works.
I will sum this to a tl;dr for the benefit of others:
1) I don’t participate in this community
2) But I know how their moderating policy works
3) And I know Reddit bans ‘in every instance happen because the harmony of the subreddit [that, in this instance, I don’t participate in] is disrupted’
4) Here are facts about the subreddit [I don’t use] and here’s how Melan’s presence or mention [in the place I don’t go] causes problems
5) Here’s the intention behind the ban [by the rulers of a place I don’t frequent]
6) And here’s why a ban [based on something I’ve multiple times admitted to lacking direct knowledge of] is a good instance of needing ‘to watch what you say …. because people [who can always be trusted to respond reasonably] are listening’
@anon
I’ve been on Reddit for 14 years bud. I know how it works, because I actively participate in many similar communities, and moderator purview is not some big mystery (except to you and Melan, apparently). Just because I don’t frequent r/OSR doesn’t mean I don’t know how subreddits work.
And minding what you say while you’re in the public eye is also not exactly rocket science. This is common sense shit.
I disagree. The cause of the discussion is the ban itself (it’s unjust, and abuse of moderator power). That’s what sparked the whole thing, not Melan’s comments. The justification is then blaming the target (Melan) after the fact.
So many people have seen this play out over the past 16+ years, that most reasonable people are sick of it, see it for the bullying that it is, and realize that if you don’t stand up to it, the perpetrators will just keep taking and taking and taking, until you make them stop.
r/OSR has 5 total moderators; to be banned by one is something that can be appealed and reversed by any of the others. If Melan really wants back in, all he has to do is appeal the ban, provided the other 4 moderators don’t likewise agree that it was justified. And even then if they do all agree on it, either Melan did something much more problematic than is being let on here, or r/OSR is just not the place for him because the majority participants disagree with him too much and it becomes chaos (if they didn’t, the top post would be “Unban Melan!”).
I wouldn’t throw down a shocked pikachu meme if I went in to r/Conserative and said “ICE is killing people, it should stop” and got banned for it. Ditto for r/worldnews and even hinting that what’s happening in Israel is turning a little genocidal. Those are political spaces with an agenda who block on principle anyone who disagrees. r/OSR is just a hobbyist sub (a tiny one at that, 34k weekly visits compared to r/dnd’s 836K). Melan’s case is not the same thing.
Im going to have a stroke reading these comments. People are people. Leave them be , they/them he/she etc. stop being retarded
This is the most GenX thing I’ve ever read. If you’re not, then please allow me to present you with this honourary membership card and some Tiger Balm. No shade brother, this made me laugh 😀
I don’t know about elsewhere, but Melan has definitely gone to the mat with the universe in a very public previous TenFoot comment section. I’m too lazy to go looking for it, so no receipts for the trolls, my bad.
I’m currently running Xyntillan and I think Melan is an amazing talent, and a really nice guy, he’s just got some old world views and tends to double down when he’s being accosted. Do I think he’s been unfairly railed by the virtue signalling psychos on the illiberal left? Yes. Do I think he’s repeatedly dug himself halfway to China with some, if not repugnant, at the very least fairly provocative remarks while being egged on by the kind of chudlord who’s swung so far right they’ve met the previously mentioned psychotic pinkos at an anti-vaxxer jamboree and now they’re having babies together.
Sorry, what was I saying? Right:
Melan, if you’re out their, it’s not right what Reddit’s doing to you, but yeah, maybe quit feeding the snowflakes and chuds, and as a previous poster said, get back to writing.
I think Melan just needs some media coaching. There are things to be broadcast, and things to keep to yourself. There are also damage control measures when the things best kept to yourself were… not.
JK Rowling is a pretty potent case study of how not to comport yourself in this situation, but Melan’s trajectory is headed down the same path (albeit without the exponentially-larger fanbase and billion-dollar franchise under his belt). You always need to mind the audience. Doubling-down and accusing *them* of being the wrong ones does not end well, unless his goal is to entrench himself into the much smaller consumer pool of “his side”. But as you say, he’s a smart guy, he should be able to figure this out in short order.
Naw man, there are people who are abusive and controlling who will always find offense to justify making attacks. The goal is to make an example out of a target, to intimidate others into obeying them. In both cases, there is no “reasonable” way to comport yourself, as accusations were always intended as bad faith smear campaigns.
Rowling just stood up for a single woman who lost her job for just questioning a proposed HR policy (they were given a “sensitivity” indoctrination at work, and she was subjected to a “struggle session” to confess her sins, then fired). Rowling was automatically branded “transphobic” on social media and it just went on from there. Melan constructively criticized a poor dungeon design by a trans person based on his well-known design principles, the person got butthurt and chose to react by unjustly accusing him of “transphobia” instead of considering that they’d made a bad adventure.
They’ve both been subjected to brigading campaigns on social media (textbook examples of how narcissists become abusive when “injured”). Rowling & Melan’s subsequent refusal to obey, and sarcasm are just reactions to being unjustly being attacked by childish people. Never ever give in to people who do this kind of abuse, as they’ll feel empowered, and keep trying to bully you.
No, Rowling is demonstrably a transphobe. Like famously so. One of the most well-documented cases in modern history. So much so that’s there’s an entire Wikipedia article page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_J._K._Rowling#Transgender_people
That’s not quite the same as “stood up for someone and was unjustly brigaded”. To claim so is either a bold-faced lie, or pure ignorance.
Rowling might be a transphobe, but since transphobia is demonstrably not real, this is not a problem.
This idiotic fad is already on the way out. Culturally it is dead, politically it is suicidal. No one but a minority of libtards still gives a shit. Four more years and no one will care, not the left, not the right. It will be like arguing about emo kids, its just that some of those emo-kids have irreversible make-up, dyed-hair and hot topic t-shirts.
Melans trajectory is, frankly, excellent and he has demonstrated that it is possible to build an audience and a real market presence without kowtowing to wokeskolds and victims of propaganda. Let him stand as a radiant example to others.
Seriously Melan, the chuds are delighted to see your business martyred on the illiberal fires for their equally moribund cause. They are shitty friends.
I’m not saying you should allow yourself to be silenced by any means, but quit feeding these fucking trolls.
I will take my chances with the guy who will fight by my side. Morale and consistency count for a lot in the adventuring trade.
How is JK Rowling an example of how not to do it? Harry Potter has its own section at bookstores and HBO is making a high budget new series of the books too. Consumers don’t care about her politics (because they largely agree), “morally outraged” employees at media companies failed to cow her into submission and so showed the limits of their power, and voters are turning against trans nonsense in a way the never did against the causes to which activists try to link trans creeps (LGB stuff).
JK Rowling is actually a great example of moral courage succeeding against cowards and the maenads prodding them
Never have I been more happy to not know what is happening on the IntarWeb.
On second thought, let’s not go to Camelot… it is a silly place.
I should have bailed after making this post sand never looked back. I did not and feel quite filthy. Suffice it is to say that I will not be reading Prince’s site nor purchasing any more of Melan’s work. I normally just don’t care about any given author’s personal life or opinions, but some things are just especially heinous. No thank you.
“Suffice it is to say that I will not be reading Prince’s site nor purchasing any more of Melan’s work.”
Spoken like a true, fickle, fair-weather ‘friend’.
First off. Thanks Bryce for letting this shitshow happens, it’s very entertaining.
Second, I wish I could see how many of these “oppressed minorities” in the RPG space aren’t just middle aged fat white men that likes to dress as female with time to spend online without starving because they live in a country that pays them well for doing nothing all day. I think everyone would be really surprised by the results.
That’s a very long and complicated way of saying “I don’t know any transgendered people IRL but I believe all memes on the internet are 100% factual and not just trolling by bored teenagers”.
Also, you shouldn’t shame persistently-online middle-aged fat white men in *defense* of Melan. Have you seen the guy?
Don’t feel so hurt, honey. Maybe someday you will be the butterfly you wanna be.
Ah yes, because I defend a thing, I must therefore be that thing. Anyone who speaks in the defense of trans people must be trans, right? Like how animal rights activists are really just three cats in a trenchcoat, and how every environmentalist is an entire rainforest stuffed into a polo shirt.
Are you Melan? Because you’re defending Melan, so by your own truly stellar indisputable logic you must either be him, or you just want to wear his skin like an XXXL-sized jumpsuit. Either way, you’re a dumbass.
Touched a nerve, I see. Don’t feel bad, sugar. We can’t win it all. Maybe I’m right in my assumptions and you just can’t deal with it?
Normal, considering you are right into the demographic I’m talking about. And why the insistence on insulting other people’s appearance like that? Is it hypocrisy oozing from every pore of yours because you can’t handle talented people who differ from your hypocritical moralistic opinions? And will not be affected by this witch hunt of yours as you wanted him to be?
You don’t need to respond to that, though. I know that this conversations is already weighing too much in your middle aged, sedentary, with too much time in your hands but can’t even exercise a little bit, white man’s heart.
@ IVFRD
No, I really don’t care about you or the brain-drool that drips from your ears at all. You can say whatever you want.
I’m a little concerned with how you keep calling me “honey” and “sugar” though; I’m really hoping you’re just a folksy waitress from the deep South, and that you’re not giving me pet names the way my wife does. Oh shit… are you… are you coming on to me? Sorry dude, I know I’m handsome, but I don’t swing that way. Probably best you make yourself scarce though – bigots are around.
The r/OSR mods are being cowards in a shitty attempt to cover their own asses. If they sincerely want to ban discussion of Melan’s work because people start shit when he’s brought up on the subreddit, then they need to be even handed about it and also ban Emmy Allen.
If the ban is because of Melan’s politics (which, to be clear, I don’t actually have issue with banning him because of that), then be fucking honest about that and have the decency to provide proof that they’re noxious enough to warrant banning discussion of his work. Otherwise people are just going to assume the mods are on a culture war-induced power trip, which in all honesty they probably are. This is still Reddit after all.
Now, what did surprise me checking out the thread where Melan’s ban was announced was how much proofless hearsay there was in discussion about his politics. Nobody actually provided any evidence for him being a right winger, bigot, etc. This wasn’t surprising to me because I didn’t expect rumor-mongering based on hearsay being used as justification to label someone as a fascist, Reddit does that all the fucking time. No, I was surprised because I thought the evidence of Melan holding these views was so abundant that it was neglible for his critics to acquire.
I’d seen him say so much shit on the RPGCodex over the years that I thought people would readily just grab that shit. I’d been using my account to lurk for so long that I’d forgotten that the Codex hid the politics subforum from the general public years ago.
So here you go everyone, just a few of Melan’s posts on the finer points of politics:
https://imgur.com/a/melans-greatest-hits-TwMgj2d
Christ on a stick, Hank, that is some bleak shit. Pretty damning.
This is actually a useful comment. Shame Melan’s output is so high quality, when he’s such an embarrassing little politics freak.
And any time that moist corner of the OSR is so much as lightly poked, you can rest assured they will clog the comments with their lost battles, screeching about Pronouns and Western Civilization and the degeneracy of “ArtPunks.” So off-putting. Tho it’s no surprise a nerd community based around the idea of ‘returning to the past, when it was better’ would attract maladjusted, brain-shattered types like them. I’d say a bit of that classic ‘Separate Art from the Artist’ mentality is necessary when evaluating their work
The battles you mention are not lost and you are out of touch, regurgitating party lines rather then first hand observational experience. You are not an independent thinker but a herd animal.
One: As opposed to reaching universal or mainstream acceptance and adoption, Pronouns outside of highly leftwing circles are considered cringe now, an artifact of leftwing overextension. In the wake of more serious political crises like Ukraine or Gaza or mass migration, it is considered little more then an afterthought. There is no reason to screech about them because they are rightly considered irrelevant by the majority of both sides.
Two: Western civilization, both culturally and socio-politically, is not a lost battle, but an active battle. Neither side has been disabled to the point where they are unable to continue fighting. If anything, the 2024 election should be sufficient proof that the battle is heating up and the two sides are becoming more even.
Three: Artpunk, as an artistic current in the OSR, is also no longer relevant, so this battle, if anything, is won. No one talks about it anymore, and if they do it is in terms of second hand observation (e.g. as outsiders trying to belong). Patrick Stuart’s grand trilogy died on the vine after a botched first part. Most of the participants involved with the movement have retired, been ousted from their own movements, quit because of poverty or have an output that is too low to sustain it as an artistic direction. Whatever the post-OSE, post-Shadowdark, super-adventure time adventure writing trend is called (and there have been too little adventures of any note to cement this culturally), its not artpunk.
The OSR is a game of telephone and under the current model, even what few exemplars can be mustered from the herd lack the expertise and focus of the founding days.
Lol. If you think the level of deranged militancy against “They/Thems” and the Evil Womanly Wokes on display in this very comment section is ANYTHING except repulsive to anyone who hasn’t had their head deep-fried by extreme internet-forum-isolation, I dont know what to tell you man
Dirty pigs enjoy mud. Simple as.
Your standards are not only not universal, they are not even relevant within your own fringe. The world is not an OSR discord. You are begging the question.
Their (plural)? I count just the one talent.
You must realize that if this offends you, you are out of touch. This is not 2014. A lot has happened. These sentiments would resonate with anywhere between one tenth to one third of european men, if not more, and a comparable or even higher number of american men. This is not fringe extremism.
Trying yet another tiresome cancellation attempt in the year of our lord 2026 seems like overplaying your hand. You have had your chance to play cultural commissar. People didn’t like it because of your hypocrisy, the naked self-interest, the lying and the discivilizational evil of the values you promote. You will simply not be allowed another chance at it. That is over.
If Melan should be banned for anything, he should be banned for having opinions that are too mild.
“Nigger Behavior”
– Gabor Lux, 3/5/2022
“Mother, someone used a gamer word on a closed forum. This is more offensive to me than the lying, stealing, plagiarism and raping reliably indulged in by my own side. You must do something!”
Only one “side” lies, steals, plagiarises and rapes?
Cannot even tell which side yo’re talking about if I remove the first part.
Your mother wants you to move out of her basement. She’s getting sick and tired of your gamer words.
Some certified bangers in that selection I had long forgotten about (and some decent political advice for those with ears to hear); some lazy choices based on searching for magic words in case they stick. Surprisingly satisfied with them. I’ll give this a “No Regerts”.
I’m just saying brother. There are people out here who still think you’re a good guy and a great creator and have said so publicly, and there are people (on both sides of the spectrum, although once again, I would argue these dolts have wrapped around and met eachother on the far side of reasonable and rational) who are happy to provoke you into saying stupid shit. Not controversial, first amendment, marketplace of ideas shit. Stupid evil shit that I don’t even think you believe. They’re not fighting by your side, they’re pushing you through the door and telling you they’re right behind you.
Thread over.
Hank wins.
FATALITY!
I can see you high-fiving your fellow stringy-haired, mask-wearing, overweight, autism survivors for the first time since Amber got his breast implants.
Who is Amber? I’m assuming someone transgendered, in which case I at least applaud you for calling them by their preferred name (at least I think you did? I don’t actually know who the fuck you’re talking about).
Also if you saw my hair you’d retract that – It’s universally considered to be glorious. And I haven’t touched a mask since 2021.
And as for overweight? Well, you got me there… I guess I could stand to lose a few pounds. I carry it well though because I’m tall.
Judging by your posts alone, you’re here not to be a justice warrior for trans rights. You’re here because of the drama and/or to slander the author (the real one, not the farse that is also mod from r/ OSR). Is it an old bad blood between you two or are you just a talenteless hack that’s taking your bite on someone that the talent alone is miles bigger than any trash author from your own turf? Either way, this only means one thing: Whatever morals you demanding from Melan, you don’t even follow it yourself. What an absolute disgrace for an adult to live like that. I feel really sorry for your parents (if you had at least one, anyway)
Tmt:
You are correct, I am not a justice warrior. Attempting to impart social conscience on this crowd would be like trying to teach a bunch of sardines how to play the harmonica.
I had no problem with Melan (I even admired him) until this thread brought his behavior to light. I’m shocked more than anything, frankly. I mean, I had some suspicions by the company he keeps and the narrative of those rushing to defend him, but no bad blood. Nor do I have anything to gain from disparaging him as an author – I have no published D&D works to sell, and he is in no way a competitor to my interests. For what it’s worth, I think Melan’s a good author (at least by reputation- I suppose I have to admit I’ve never owned nor even read a work of his beyond his blog), but then I once thought Kevin Spacey was a good actor and Tiger Woods was a good golfer, so I guess one’s works are not a good metric to go by.
I do think shitty people need to be called out for being shitty. That’s what I believe. Those are my morals. Yours apparently differ; you’d prefer to coddle shitty people, yet you say I have no morals and pity my parents? You’re a farce, bud. You’ll forgive me if I put no weight into anything you have to say.
That you are fat is self-evident, no further effort need be spent describing your repugnant physique. It is analogous to stating that you are disliked.
The most important thing to internalize now is also that you are too stupid to impose or judge any moral action performed by anyone. Even if you were capable of such judgement, you still would not be able to make them within the OSR because you have contributed nothing of worth so your standing is inadequate to the task, and it always will be.
You are already partially implementing this detached code of non-judgement. You base your morality from tv shows and slogans that rhyme without performing any sort of synthesis or critical integration. Similar to your contributions to the OSR, in forming your judgements, you perform no action and exert no effort. What remains is that you apply the same standards on applying it. Life will become less painful and frustrating, I promise.
I’ve never been more convinced that Victus is Prince in my life. This makes a lot of sense now.
You shouldn’t insult a person’s appearance, Prince. It might just get thrown back in your face.
https://imgur.com/a/Ujed1Rm
For instance, the above is a nice snapshot of the pair of you, Melan and Prince, best buddies sharing a great laugh, both specimens representing the pinnacle of human physique and open-mindedness. Don’t worry, I’m not doxxing you – I pulled it right from Melan’s blog
For those following at home, Prince (aka Victus) is the stately fellow on the left with the greasy, stingy hair of a sea hag and both the bone pallor and labored squint of a man who does not encounter sunlight on a regular basis; Melan on the right, is seen stalwart in his resolution to self-identify as a land-walking blobfish. Not pictured: anyone with a hint of skin pigmentation (for obvious reasons).
Of course, me a guy who with a “repugnant physique” (per Prince) “could stand to lose a couple pounds” (per me) am actually pretty well off physically. I am considered quite handsome, and though a bit over, I was a personal trainer at a gym for years, so my core is solid and I carry it well. “A little paunch” is basically how I’d describe my weight right now. Certainly not “repugnant”, like that weird extra-virginal scarecrow from the picture above, that’s for sure.
But hey, you’ve contributed to the OSR more than me Prince, you’ve got me there. Too bad you can’t even do it using your real name. I’m sure that will cause headaches for all the guys building monuments to you when you’re gone, considering you don’t even come up on the first page of a Google search.
Possessing the inclination to defend oneself on the Internet by saying “I’m considered quite handsome” is a guarantee your actual life is barren and friendless.
If you understood the difference between arguing in blog comments and your actual life, you would realize that 1) it is pathetic to use this defense anywhere 2) online in an anonymous setting we don’t care at all, which is more than disbelief 3) you obviously have a dead end job and neither spouse nor custody of any children you may have produced. These failures are way more embarrassing than being fat and – worse – boring.
@Jojo
I’m truly impressed at your ability to speak volumes on matters of which you know nothing. I’ll be sure to tell my wife and friends that they don’t exist… I’d say that we’d all find it hilarious and have a big laugh at your expense, but as stupidity apparently not only common these days but somehow encouraged by your ilk, it’s becoming decidedly less funny each passing day.
But no no, your whole “nuh-uh, you’re a fatty fat fat with no friends” schtick was truly dizzying in its efficacy and nuance. I haven’t heard such deep-cutting comments since grade school. I can’t refute such an ironclad defense of Melan’s character when he’s got such brilliant advocates as yourself defending him.
I’m sorry I was right about you losing custody of your kids then. That’s the toughest break.
Thank you for assembling a dossier of your political disagreements with your elfgame community rival.
Back on topic, Bryce you thought this guy’s Danger in the Delta was also computer-gamey.
The one Lawful Good man on Ten Foot Pole, standing up for adventure design discussion when there is a brawl going on. Respectable!
The author probably never played a tabletop RPG in his life before doing this crap.
So Melan is is a boy man who can’t grow a moustache and prince is every fat, bald basement dweller. Figures. The epitome of manhood online and decry “soyboys” and praise pure bloodlines but pasty low t losers in the flesh.
I don’t know what people are trying to accomplish by throwing shit at each other.
I strongly disagree with Melan’s political views but I admire his work and enjoy gaming with him. People are not single-dimensionary. I also happen to run a (foreign) RPG forum where Melan would be banned for some of the cited posts – not fot the opinions, but for the insulting manners in which they’re expressed, which would be breaking but rules. But that’s the point – breaking our rules. It would not cross my mind to ban people for whatever they do elsewhere, let alone ban any mention of their of their work for opinions expressed elsewhere, especially in non-public spaces.
People are entitled to have opinions you dislike. If you don’t like them, try discussing with them and changing their mind. Or not – you’re free not to associate with them. But I don’t get the point of this public shaming, shit-throwing and trying to force others not to associate with people you happen not to like. The only thing you’re achieving with that is further entrenching the opposition and feeding the hatred mill. (And that goes both ways, BTW.)
Gaming is a great opportunity for people of all sorts to come together and perhaps see that the people on the opposite side are not diabolic… they’re just people. Gaming is a great opportunity to soften those edges, find common ground and maybe bring us a bit closer. Please don’t waste this by being dicks to each other.
That’s the problem. These people don’t play shit. You can see that by looking at the kind of trash they produce and try to sell at itch.io and call themselves RPG designers. They’re just internet dwellers.
And about the forums, you spoke the truth. As a codex enjoyer myself, people just communicate in this offensive way there. It’s not personal, it’s just ‘street talking’ . These prints are just done in bad faith. If this person actually frequented there, he would know that people there just talk this way to each other.
It’s offensive? Yes. It’s not the healthiest way to talk to each other? Also, yes. It meant what looks like by these isolated prints? No. It’s like talking in the work with your boss like you talk with your friends.
I frequent LGBTQIA+ “safespaces” as well, and they can be even more obnoxious than RPGcodex. Because, as I said in another post, a lot of these people are still white, still middle+ class and they are not accustomed to having their historically held privileges questioned.
There are only three types of people who drop the n-word in public spaces: deliberate trolls, “edgy” kids, and people who use the word purposefully and unironically. Trolls don’t make their identity so apparent as Gabor, and he’s also way too bald to be a kid. So that leaves what it leaves, and there’s an adage about people like that:
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them”.
You may continue to decry “overly sensitive” and “white privilege” at the issue until the cows come home, but it doesn’t change what we all saw when the man dropped his facade. He said what he said, and has yet to retract, apologize, or even own up to it… which means that he meant it, and still means it.
I believe he is who he has shown himself to be. I can’t fight it, I won’t hound him to repent his wicked ways, but I (and anyone else) am also allowed to disapprove of it, regardless of your feelings on the matter.
This thread so far has thus far had its share of fairly enjoyable meltdowns but some points should be made.
1) We’ve had about a decade of cancel culture to examine what society would be like if if we let the lunatics run the asylum. Corruption, the elevation of criminal incompetents, destruction of public trust and senseless waste were the overall result. It is observable that envious worthless morons will use the arbitrary and vague nature of the imposed moral system to tear down others who do better. Lets do better this time around.
2) The original argument appears to be something along the lines of ‘we found evidence that Melan says something mean to support what we have already cheerfully been doing without a shred of evidence to himself and others for almost a decade.’
My position is simple: If you don’t contribute anything generative to this hobby, shut the fuck up about it. Write an adventure that’s good, host a forum, run a blog, make salient points about AC and hit points and then I’ll listen to you.
3) Although it is amusing that this thread has somehow convinced DP that he is to be made some sort of High Archon placed in sole charge of the moral arbitration of a grand creator of the OSR, I remind everyone that because he contributes nothing (a point that meets with universal agreement) nothing bad will happen by simply ignoring him. If a newcomer mistakenly tries to engage him in anything, please show him this thread, and say: this gentleman is not well. He is pulling up pictures of people and screaming at ghosts on the internet. He is not very happy, which is understandable, but we can’t help him now. Lets just move on and play D&D.
4) There was only a single genuinely offensive thing being discussed on tenfootpole, which was The1True, an inoffensive but easily duped commenter, implying that because he disagreed with me, the excellence of my adventures must somehow lie in the merits of an under-credited Malrex. Now Malrex actually is a good editor, especially when we worked on PouR, and he made it better, but I don’t think under crediting is anywhere near a fair charge. I propose one look at Slyth Hive, which received text edits only, and PR1 my contribution to Fight On, which received no edits, for comparison.
5) If you are offended now, at people not sharing your values, please be prepared. One way or another, society is going to change even more and you will have even less in common with everyone else. I say this because I understand. I remember a time that people could just talk about any topic because they had enough commonalities. That is gone now. But if you divest yourself of false values, and keep your mind on what actually, genuinely, matters, you will find that you can still reach people across the aisle that are worth knowing and this nonsense hyperreality dissapears like smoke.
succinct and wise as ever
1_ Is the Frumpist regime in America “cancel culture” , because that’s the most corrupt western govt I’ve ever seen..
2_ Using racial slurs, deliberately, in your 40s… pretty low class stuff. Your points are better, made and received without marking yourself as a bigot (or edgelord at best).
3_ Aren’t you guys going off on *ypises, *iggers and *eftists just as offended that other people just shrug at immigration or TS people? It’s pure pot and kettle you whackos.
It’s funny to me that beneath the bloviating and neckbeard-stroking moralizing, beneath the assurances that the Silent Majority of Autistic European Internet Chuds will any day now conquer all of culture, beneath the petty little message-board grudges and demands that everyone display their AD&D credentials, is a rather simple thesis: “Can’t we say a COUPLE of racial slurs?”
Some truly intellectual stuff.
I also find it funny that someone who’s apparently locked in battle with a dastardly forum troll known as ‘the1True’ over issues of DriveThruRPG credit on a pdf file that maybe 100 total people read (???) thinks he can make any proclamations as to the social trends of polite society. I pray for the day one of these guys leaves his basement and runs into an actual, everyday obstacle. Like a low fence, or long flight of stairs.
Say what you want about all the itch.io Nu-SR types, or r/OSR Redditors, or the more accessible YouTubers, but they at least broadly seem to partake in the hobby with enthusiasm and kindness, and avoid ridiculous self-aggrandizement and toxicity and edgelordiness as a general rule. They’re so pleasant. Whereas these guys can’t host one adventure-writing contest without writing 10 incomprehensible AI-assisted manifestos about the incursion of Postmodern Neo-Marxists into Old School Gaming. It must be an exhausting way to live.
“(though I wonder now how much of those were an under-credited Malrex)”
You know what. I meant to stand up for a friend who’s done nothing but contribute to this community, but I can see now how this could be interpreted as a shot at your expense, and for that I apologize.
See how easy that was? I know you can do it too, because you yourself are on record expressing regret for cruel things said in the deep past on YDIS. I’d say Melan should give it a try, but I can see now that he dug himself through to China, bought cheap rocket boots in Shenzhen and kept digging all the way to Saturn. He may have to give it the old Kevin Spacey and step back to “focus on his family” for a little while. You’ve said some not-great things (some of which, I’ll admit, have made me laugh), but you’ve been careful not lash out on record like your friend has. Can we agree that getting witch-hunted by the increasingly illiberal mob is worth defending, but stupid and/or angry words are not?
I do not regret accusing you of bullying though. Using your power as moderator, you have deleted or edited my and other people’s posts because you can — not because those posts broke the rules or were repugnant to anyone but you. Maybe that’s what I’ve got to look forward to with this post? Like I said, it’s not a good look for someone who espouses your libertarian views, brother.
And you’re right that I’m easily duped in that I continued to defend Melan here. Perhaps I shouldn’t have. I am pretty disappointed atm.
Final shot: Melan, I’ve got a Turkish diplomat in my group playing through your megadungeon right now having an absolute blast, learning about old school play…I dunno…maybe think about how the world perceives you?
@OneTrue
Apology accepted.
You are free to provide examples of my moderator abuse, here or via mail, in my recollection the only thing I have done is remove overt political posting during my administration, which I have tried to do evenhandedly and with some expectation management. This was to keep the rather volatile mixture of commenter community intact.
The problem here, and everywhere else, is that the stupid/angry words and the witch hunts have all become inextricably linked. So any concession, which in a healthy community would be taken as a sign that the subject can now be redeemed, is taken instead as a confession of guilt, and used to extort further confessions. It is total nonsense, there’s no objectivity and no proportionality to it, it is totally indefensible.
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Read, learn, accept.
2) So contributors only in the hobby now? And you call me a gatekeeper. Hey guys, Prince decrees that hobbies are only for those who make things – consumers, reviewers, and literal “hobbyists” should not involve themselves in hobbies. I guess that’s 90% of the already-small hobby space gone. Genius.
3) The only one giving me such airs are you, sir. I must owe you rent for the space I take in your head. I just join in conversations… in public spaces… which are accessible to anyone… People can judge for themselves if my words have value, they don’t need you to do it for them.
I also defend myself if attacked (which you do endlessly, even adopting new pseudonyms to do so like a coward, “Victus”); sorry you can’t take what you dish, but that’s not my problem. Don’t start shit, won’t be shit, as they say.
4) It baffles me that a person like you has attached themselves to a stand-up guy like Malrex; I hope all this outed-bigotry isn’t throwing the MM brand into a PR spiral. I’d hate to see good people go down for your antiquated worldview.
Slyth is your only solo work beyond a zine entry, yes? Well, congratulations on inventing the Tyranids 37 years after the fact, or the Zerg 26 years after the fact, all by yourself. It must have been hard to open a book and use somebody else’s ideas. Oh wait, you had an editor. Then I guess the only actual solo project we have to judge you by is whatever the hell “PR1” is. We got a veritable Stephen King of the OSR over here with that kind of output.
5) It’s funny how the guys who complain about people not being flexible about language are the ones who refuse to call transgendered people by their proper names (you deadname Jennell quite a bit, Prince) and gripe about everyone else not sharing their value of saying whatever bigoted shit they want without having to suffer consequences for it. Or they just dismiss the views of others as “false values” and “nonsense hyperreality”, whatever the fuck that entails.
But no, you’re right we should all forget it and get along and make shit, like we did in the old days, he says sarcastically. There’s nothing like insulting folk out of one side of your mouth and then begging for peace from the other. You cry about thought-police while telling people they think wrong. You demand contribution but contribute little more than criticism (no offense Bryce). You say we’re too quick to get offended, then write a whole book in response to an insult. You’re a cowardly hypocrite, Prince/Victus, too cowardly to even pick one name to live by. Your words mean nothing to me.
At least you’ve stopped talking about men’s bodies for a second. This is not grindr. Now in order.
1) What’s next, Umberto Eco’s definition of Ur-fascism? That is not a response, that is a cliche. Use your own thoughts.
2) I am calling you a non-tributing piece of deadweight, which you are. Yes a small hobby should be arbitrated by people that contribute to it, not useless dead weight homos burdened by childhood trauma.
3) No. There are absolutely people that take up rent in my head, in particular those who have committed particularly egregious deeds under a virtuous guise, but you are not among them because you are too ineffectual. You are still seething that I banned you for one day (?) when I administrated Bryce’s forum years ago. Sorry, I never gave it a second thought. I pegged you as a cretin instead of a harmless retard because of how you acted towards Squeen, which is simply malicious, and I respond instinctively when the density of your commentary reaches a certain threshold, as when I see a household object in need of desperate cleaning after which I forget about you again immediately and carry on with my day. And that’s probably how most people deal with you.
4) You are literally retarded and don’t know anything. You can ask Malrex about the sequence of events of how we met.
You keep thinking you are going to land any sort of hit but you are just flailing wildly hoping that something sticks. Again, this is not a grindr date, you are not having illicit gay sex, you are trying to talk on the internet. Focus. Tyranids, Slivers, Abraham Merrit, Knights of Sidonia, Bluegender; There’s a whole Appendix N in there of influences stupid. This is what people do when they write adventures btw, which is a subset of doing something.
You can actually read a decent review of what’s going on in there, its really nice, people haven’t tried that before with high level adventures.
https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?p=9160
People respect Bryce’s opinion on adventures, not because of his politics but because he does something. You should try doing something, then maybe people would also care what you think about your body and how it relates to other men’s bodies.
5) Again, you are just projecting your own neuroses and not reading what is being said. Look at my picture again, give yourself a hit of dopamine, yes, now try again. I state that yes, if you are into progressive worldviews, you are going to have to get used to those no longer receiving mainstream support because that is going to happen. This is just a fact.
Now, I absolutely and emphatically do not want any sort of peace with you specifically and people like you in general. How could one? What would such a thing even entail when you don’t do anything? You are a poisonous weasel that exists only to generate noise. How would I even remember?
However, anyone who has a real existence outside of whatever news outlets or discords you peruse understands that there are plenty of normal and even good people that one disagrees with. If you are non-neurotic, you understand disagreement can have several causes:
– Different Core Assumptions
– Different Information
– Different Faculty to deduce conclusions from said information and core assumptions
Without any sort of malice ever entering into the equation. One can argue this is the original liberal position, but it is actually just adulthood.
Now unlike you, I talk to people I disagree with frequently (and that includes Lotfp fans, what I used to call Artpunk fans, communists, even some of my close friends, this is all fine), and there are some commonalities there. You want to help those people, because this is a scary time. Again, this is not talking about yourself, who are beyond help and useless.
TLDR:
PM: You did it again DP. The award for Canada’s Annual Gayest Faggot for the sixth consecutive time. Let me shake that sweaty boneless hand.
DP: I couldn’t have done it without you PM, you are my only friend.
PM: How do you do it? **wipes hand with handkerchief, which is then disposed of** When a skyscraper full of engorged third world migrants sustained by tax payer dollars is in need of solace, with your constitution and life-style injuries, how do you get it done?
DP: I think of how much I hate my dad and the rest is easy.
PM: If only god would be here to see it she would be proud. If only people understood how much you have done for the country, they would see that there’s no need for you contribute meaningfully to a hobby community you insist on being a part of.
DP: You got it PM. Now if you excuse me, I have some shlongs to guzzle
Fin.
Prince, you’re broken, bud. I hope you find all that gay sex you’re seemingly so excited about.
I mean, I appreciate you trying to distract from Melan’s blatant bigotry by deploying even more weapons-grade bigotry alongside it (looks like somebody’s seen There Will Be Blood), but that’s not the play, bro. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Seeing as you clearly can’t read, I’ll repeat myself here in all caps: YOUR WORDS MEAN NOTHING TO ME.
Now apparently I need to have an awkward conversation with my second wife about being “Canada’s Annual Gayest F**got”… She’s going to be just as surprised as I am. Open-minded, mind you, but surprised nonetheless.
Did losing custody of your kids from your first marriage make it easier to find love a second time?
Your fixation on kids and custody is really weird, man. I don’t have any kids, never did. You keep trying to find something to diss me with, but you keep missing the mark so bad.
Do you miss your kids Jojo? Is that what this is really about? Insulting strangers on the internet won’t bring them back, Jojo. It just drives a bigger wedge, like the gigantic one I need to slide your enormous mother out of bed when I’m done with her.
See, now *that’s* how you insult a guy.
Speaking as a very neutral arbiter, DP did sort of wriggle out of your attack there, and he’s not so bright so with practice you should be able to reliably hit him. Notice he attempts to dunk on you by an admission that he has sex with incredibly obese and probably old women. You are not fighting Gwyn Lord of Cinder here.
Picking up on his, in probability, unpleasant divorce from a unnecessary comment about his wife is a good instinct, its possible that that is a sore spot. But there’s too many assumptions buried in your question, which is meant to provoke him, and all those assumptions give him something to focus on.
You really don’t need much. Something like ‘who initiated the divorce?’ is often good enough. Nice, quick, clean. Again, you are doing cold reading, you don’t know, but you can figure out how it probably went down.
I do find it funny that these people (Prince etc) have been persuaded by their little echo chambers that their views are normal in Europe. In reality, normies are mostly horrified when they drop the mask like this. What public traction they get is largely down to AI-based Facebook disinformation pumped out to gullible pensioners, incels, and thugs with domestic violence convictions. All of their leaders are liars and the vast majority are nakedly corrupt. Some crusade.
1) There we go, all out of steam. I observe civil forms in civil discussion and incivil forms in incivil discussion. Super simple.
2) Don’t be a bitch. You can quote someone as he says ‘faggot’, you won’t get any cooties by association. You are trying to convey an event without sharing the same sentiment. In the same way that a guy simply quoting Melan in 2022 is unlikely to catch flak for using the N-word (although this one is admittedly the most extreme example). I do find it amusing that you manage a limp wristed ‘no ur ghey urself’ at the beginning of your post, as a vague perjorative no less, totally invalidating any sort of moral high ground you are trying to occupy, followed by an unsolicited admission that you have, not only a first wife, but a second one, to remove any lingering doubt about your sexuality that we understandably might have had, while also slipping in a second clause to remove any doubt we might have had about her bigotry. Well don’t stop there, what does she think about gaza? Why are we avoiding that topic?
3) I know you are having wet dreams that having a gamer word slap fight in a comment’s section will hurt my publisher, I’ll get arrested and hopefully, please please please, maybe Melan gets double secret cancelled and we get put in a cell with the Hyperfantasy Handbooks guy and someone who wrote a comment on my blog once and you get to be the judge or whatever. Now, I’m going to go out on a limb and predict that this will not happen, and we’re just going to have to see won’t we.
And to you, the hapless reader that made it all this way: This is probably as good of a microcosm of the duality of the OSR as you are likely to get. On the one hand; the talent, the movers, the reviewers, the freethinkers! Tumultuous, untamed, difficult, opinionated, crass yet capable of discussion, wit, banter, disagreement! On the other: the hoi polloi, the commoners, the bug-men! Humorless, self-righteous, craving conformity, seeking to tear down out of envy, and create an inchoate grey mass of DPs, Yochai Gals and Demi El Gatos.
What hobby you want to live in is up to you. I bid you adieu and I’ll see you in the comments.
Jeebus christ man, shut up. You are doing yourself no favours, no matter wtf cause you think you are portraying positively.
From a normie who now has to actually contend with NNzi views by contributors… wtf!
Gimme a “Y” “Y!”
Gimme an “O” “O!”
Gimme a “U” “U!”
Gimme an “R” “R!”
Gimme a “W” “W!”
Gimme an “O” “O!”
Gimme a “R” “R!”
Gimme a “D” “D!”
Gimme a “S” “S!”
Gimme an “M” “M!”
Gimme an “E” “E!”
Gimme an “A” “A!”
Gimme an “N” “N!”
Gimme an “N…again” “N!”
Gimme an “O” “O!”
Gimme a “T” “T!”
Gimme an “H” “H!”
Gimme an “I” “I!”
Gimme a “N” “N!”
Gimme a “G” “G!”
Gimme a “T” “T!”
Gimme an “O” “O!”
Gimme an “M” “M!”
Gimme an “E” “E!”
What does it spell?!
“YOUR WORDS MEAN NOTHING TO ME!!! YAAAY!”
Sorry for the wall folks. Prince just isn’t getting it. There’s only so much hammering-home that can be done in the comment format. Maybe this time, he might see all those letters and go “I should really connect those together so that I can understand them”. Or if someone nearby could explain it to him, I’d appreciate it.
To the general audience (*cough* jojo*cough*): My divorce was amicable, btw. No friction there, no regrets. Pretty smooth process, actually. Bark up another tree.
@erm
Too strong. You can argue bigotry, but nothing I said is in support of that.
To be crystal clear: I am neither a nazi, nor a fascist, nor do I have ties with anyone associated with such.
@jojo You see? Its a sensitive point with all sorts of implications so he’s instantly pressed to defend it. If he had good frame control he’d let it go because he’s already stated that what I say doesn’t matter to him. Yet he does. Now the next step is to analyze the response.
DP exhibits signs of having, what are called in psychology ‘alloplastic defences.’ If you get into a prolonged argument with him you will notice he doesn’t actually respond to anything you have said. What he’s going to do is try to misinterpret or misunderstand what you have said, and then try to trick other people into that misunderstanding. It is not hard to counter if you are observant, but it can be tedious if you are actually trying to make headway.
The alloplastic part comes in where he also does it to himself. He’s constantly trying to convince himself that he is winning or the star of every encounter he is in. You must have headspace about him. He really made you mad etc. The only reason you don’t like him is because he wont suck your dick (also gay). You can see it by him congratulating himself, or talking about his body or declaring victory etc. This is not just frame control, it is an internal bolstering of a fragile psyche.
A healthy psychology develops some degree of self-awareness. Mind you, it is still riddled with mechanisms and biases that protect the ego, simply as a defense mechanism and because this produces better results and allows the psychology to overcome severe shocks. But if in formative years, the mind receives too many shocks, the ability to self-reflect is stunted as being too dangerous, and instead, the mind will construct a shell, a cognitive hall of mirrors that refracts and distorts all events so that they cause no harm. Events, perceptions and even memory are rewritten. This provides the mind with solace, but there is an inevitable price to be paid.
With precision, you can break this hall of mirrors, and reveal the naked ape.
You used a lot of paragraphs to call someone gay in the most graphic way possible for an eighth grader. You clearly have some shit to work out.
Long time listener, first time caller. This one has been a doozy!
Huh, looking at this, I can’t imagine why someone who moderates a forum in their free time would ban the topic of Melan.
Xyntillan’s still the overall best megadungeon.
It is difficult to manage on a larger forum. With smaller ones you can go for a chud-build (this used to be a normal forum) and Melan can be discussed freely (as can the supermajority of creators of all kinds) or you go for a woke-build and you just pre-emptorily ban him because of his bigotry or whatever you choose to accuse him of (it really does not matter, it will be believed without any criticism).
Forums that seek to operate as a large tentpole catering to all sides are vulnerable to this sort of comment section activism, which is very disruptive even if the accusations are false (or too vague or subjective to conclusively prove). What happens is that there is a lingering doubt, people claim they feel unsafe, and sympathetic moderators bring the position to the administrator, who will be inclined to preserve harmony, all of this without any examination of the evidence, or any chance for the accused to defend himself. A second problem is that with online anonimity, it is not always clear who is doing the activism. Usually, these people try to pass themselves off as part of the community, but they are actually an invasive species that wants to change it to suit their own preferences. The end result is that you get places that can no longer fulfill their primary function. In the first years of the culture war, this tactic has been used to great effect.
We are now a decade in. Most places have effectively self-segregated (with either strict moderator policies to preserve orthodoxy and a segment of the commentariat hiding its power level or free moderator policies meaning the places quickly fall to chudism), restoring balance, but also serving as an echo-chamber.
Ultimately, this is a hobby. People are going to want to talk about interesting adventure material with people they share that interest with, and if enough people want to do that places will emerge that cater to it.
I still need to run/check out Xyntillan. I love Stonehell but it does feel penultimate in some way. Barrowmaze is cute but not quite there. Arden Vul is probably too massive to fully grok. AX2 good but difficult to penetrate and apprehend without AX3. Rappan Athuk probably too old?!?
On the Paradox of Tolerance.
As an argument this is annoying because while it is in essence correct (similar to an argument against pacificm ‘if you want peace prepare for war’), this has degenerated into a reddit-tier sort of magic spell that instantly justifies any action, as long as that action is directed towards perceived intolerance.
The basic idea is that if you want a tolerant society, you cannot suffer the existence of those who are intolerant, since they will eventually come to dominate.
There are three major problems with the way the statement is commonly used.
The first: The statement fails to provide quantification. If we require X amount of intolerance to fight Y amount of intolerance to guarantee our tolerant society persists, when is that equation no longer worth it. Are we allowed to be twice as intolerant against the intolerant in order to preserve tolerance? What about 10x? 100x? How many illiberal policies must a liberal society adopt to safeguard its core principles until it is no longer recognizably liberal? The saying ‘In order to save the village we had to destroy it’ comes to mind. The answer seems simple, that the reaction must be proportional to the original incident. This condition is violated habitually.
Second, and worse; The usual suspects have instigated a sly substitution when it comes to its use in defending Cancel Culture, taking tolerance to mean acceptance/agreement when in fact it is the opposite. To disagree with something, or even to disagree with a fundamental framework (take for example, the controversial gender theory), is not itself intolerant, unless action is undertaken to change that condition. Tolerance, not total homogenity of thought, is the basis of western society, where people disagree but are willing to let those differences stand as long as they all within a certain envelope. Cancel culture neither exhibits, nor safeguards tolerance of any kind. It demands total acceptance and total conformity. This is justified by theories that all dissent eventually leads to violence and oppression thus all forms of dissent are just grounds for suppression.
Third, even if it were about controlling merely intolerant and not nonaccepting behavior, there is a subjective component to tolerance and intolerance. Violence is the least subjective. Words are the most. Then there is a blurry line of second or third degree violence, stochastic terrorism (indeed, we have within this comment’s section an example of stochastic cancellation ‘boy it sure would be bad if they would do X, Y and Z in this exact manner hee hee’), noncompliance, economic warfare, reputational damage etc. The more subjective a component is, the easier it is manipulated by bad or selfish actors. Words, impressions, inferences, even thoughts or deeply held beliefs, these are easily twisted or misinterpreted. Behavior and action, on the other hand, is a more reliable and objective metric, especially if considered over time.
As a bonus, I would ask how often there is a penalty for false accusations under Cancel Culture, and if so, how often are these enforced?
Lol you can’t claim authority on tolerance in the same thread you call someone a “r*tard” and a “f**got”. One doesn’t simply rationalize their way out of hate speech. You can’t weasel out of the words that are still on display for the world to see.
Look, bigotry aside, your words already mean nothing to me – I believe I’ve explained this quite boldly – so in your unfathomable intellect you solve that with more words? I could keep explaining this to you, but I can’t understand it for you too. You’ve got to pull your own weight on this one.
I’m sorry, I didn’t quite catch it. Prince’s words mean nothing to you – did I get it right?
Nailed it, first try!
Consider yourself officially, demonstrably smarter than Prince.
@DP
You respond yet again, which is not the action of a person who does not care about what is being said. You still reliably do not engage with anything that is being said though because I think you are starting to realize that each time you do so you reveal more.
I weasel out of nothing. I question your use of the paradox of tolerance as a justification what has been done over the past seven years, and what we are now attempting to do again. You can either argue against that, or you can show that it is exactly as I say, a threadbare excuse for you to indulge your worst impulses.
Let us continue with the analysis:
DP observably does not give a shit about whatever bigotry he accuses others of. I want to briefly contrast this with TheOneTrue, who, despite having a strong disagreement and dissaproval of my breach of etiquette and my use of tactical bigotry, actually did apologize when he insinuated something that was not true. He doesn’t do that because of me, a person of perceived low standing, but because he cares about being truthful. The standard applies to his own conduct, it doesn’t matter if the other person has perceived moral failings.
In the case of DP, he has observably no problem with insinuating I am gay as an insult, nor does he have a problem with attacking people on their physical appearance (I refer to the picture, in the first, and the your mother is fat in the second and I believe this is referred to as ‘ableism’). Now, this is all retaliatory, and as far as I am concerned, this is just banter and the traits in question would actually not be desirable for me to have, so from my perspective, we are good.
But the whole framework that DP attempts to apply is that merely using these insults, even if not applied within a bigoted context (after all, DP denies he is gay and fat), implies that they are undesirable traits, and therefore their use is unjustifiable in any context. But he himself uses those terms gleefully. Now he might simply be too stupid to remain consistent (possible), but I find this explanation unsatisfactory. I don’t think he cares. I think this system, with its ambiguous standards, reliably provides camouflage for people with bad impulses and allows them, under the guise of virtue, to indulge those impulses. And DP is a minor, low HD version of that person.
For someone who wants me gone, you sure are fervent in provoking and summoning me. For someone who says I don’t live in their head, you sure do love to invoke my name at every turn.
You’re a bigoted hypocritical joke, and your words continue to mean nothing to me (if I had to describe – “seagull screeches”, I’d say)…
except! you’ve gone and gotten something so blatantly backwards that I was forced to intercede. Your wrongheadedness has caused me to break a vow of “let him have the last word so he’ll finally shut up”.
I iterate this for the benefit of the reader:
My statement of “I hope you find all that gay sex you’re seemingly so excited about.” is not slinging homosexuality as an insult (though your automatic construing of it in that sense is telling).
Here’s the thing, that wasn’t sarcastic, Prince: I am genuine in my desire that you the gay sex you so desperately want. I support you fulfilling that desire, not condemn it as you would. I think your hooking up with a dude and getting laid might actually benefit everyone here – clearly you’re pent up. Go at it, this is the 21st century.
And as to cries of “abelism” because I joked of sleeping with a guy’s fat mamma, well, I guess you’ve not heard of “yo momma” jokes where you’re from? Or just never made it to the 3rd grade?
Either way, your pitiful deflections and lengthy essays on how much you don’t think about me are tiring. Back to my vows.
@Prince, you didn’t actually read the article, did you. Didn’t read it, or didn’t understand it, or understood it but made a series of straw man arguments in bad faith.
You talk about DP’s obsession with you, but I’m pretty sure it’s clear who is living in whose head rent-free.
With every comment you undermine your own credibility. Freedom of expression protects you from state limitations on your speech, not non-state limitations. Just because you have a right to say something does not mean that you should protected from the social or economic consequences of doing so, because *that is how the marketplace of ideas works.* If people aren’t free to reject your ideas, then you are living in a society where speech is not free.
Nobody’s trying to cancel you, you are cancelling yourself.
I expect you will feel a need to respond with some sort of ad hominem, straw man or other bad faith argument. Go ahead. I’m prepared to let you have the last word on this, because you just aren’t worth it.
Prince is clearly some sort of autist who will be unable to accept your analysis and double down on a complete mental backflip to try and counter it even if it is contrary to all previous positions.
The facts that he 1. doesn’t realize how off-putting his manic soliloquizing is, and 2. that he’s amassed a little handful of nocturnal minions who flood these comment sections alongside him, are honestly a bit staggering. His is a sort of inflated, neurodivergent delusion that is only made possible by the internet
@Beoric
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt because of past interactions, which means I will attempt to address what you are saying seriously. Unlike DP, you clearly and absolutely believe in what you are saying. I disagree with many of those things and consider some to be actively harmful, but I believe they are sincere and their motivation is not malicious.
(Rent free
I observed that DP still appears to carry a grudge over being banned years ago for being annoying. So it is not unreasonable to assume he is carrying a grudge. I dispute I carry a grudge against DP. I don’t like him, I think he’s deadweight, but when I am not actively engaging with him he does not merit any processing power. His influence is too minor for it to bother me.
That I am pursuing the fight now is a character trait: yes I like internet fights, yes I like slicing apart an argument and yes I think its funny. So if we want to go down this route, I think we should.
(freedom of speech
I do not make an argument from freedom of speech, because it is not relevant. I’m telling you we should not throw out a pillar of the community, with great talent, for a nebulous offense, which is largely irrelevant to that community, on the word of an outsider who observably hates and attempts to supplant that community at every turn.
(Cancel yourself
My dear sir, throughout my decade’s long run on this platform I have been bucking, tearing, kicking and snarling at sacred fenceposts and I have been called every single word in the book from day zero. I have had the honor of appearing on the secret osr discord blacklist memo alongside wife-beaters, accused rapists, pagan neo-nazis and a harmless libertarian creator who makes, what is probably the best oldschool game for domain level play. This is not some landmark event. This is tuesday.
I don’t rely on my RPG proceeds to sustain myself, and I have reliably had an audience in times of infamy and prestige alike. They often go hand in hand. That I am willing to abide by these imposed norms at all is a concession on my part, a gift really, so you may enjoy the fruits of my labor, and comment on them if you have any questions or good ideas, without being hassled by blue-haired haranguers and moral busybodies.
You are signaling you are willing to sever connections, but part of your message is imploring, you are trying to prevent a person from making a mistake, seeing what can be salvaged. I hope this message provides you with the clarity you require in order to proceed.
You are mistaken, I already have the clarity I require.
Oh I expect you are correct, he is absolutely gonna go full autist again and submit a 3 page essay on how “nuh uh you’re anti free speech and i’m not, so there” and how sophisticated the sheer joy of tastefully applied racial slurs (tactically deployed was the phrase?) and how needful hating on people who are different than you is- because he is the guardian of learning and civilisation of course.
What is the penalty for false accusations under Right Wing Authoritarianism and if so, how often is it applied? Please explain.
@Erm
This is a good example of a red herring, and it does not bode well for any future discussion.
In my critique, I point out that the goal of the Paradox of Tolerance, which is to produce a society with a tolerant attribute, is impeded because the current Cancel Culture implementation lacks checks and balances that prevent it from achieving what it is meant to achieve. I point out what I perceive to be three flaws.
Since it is not the goal of Authoritarianist Right-Wing models to facilitate a tolerant society that allows for a broad range of viewpoints, and I do not advocate for Authoritarian Right Wing rule as a model for hobby anywhere in my post, it does not make sense to ask the question, in the same way that it would not make sense to ask what the penalty for false accusations is under Asatru, Left-wing Path Occultist rabbinism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Juche or the Council of Twelve. I am telling you the implemented solution does not match the stated goal. What the solution would be is a different discussion.
It is repugnant to see racial slurs having been used.
The real Bryce would let some typos slip in.
If only you were in a position to, I don’t know, moderate this bin fire, and prevent racist assholes and their weirdly verbose homophobic defenders from making this review site a disaster zone. I’m sure the author of Verzogen Vald will pay zero attention to your critique when you have a legion of bigots with a chip on their shoulder using your work as a tacit pretext to shit on their efforts too.
When you let the comments be a cesspool it detracts from the content of your review and if you want authors to take note of feedback and improve, maybe muzzle the racists, homophobes, transphobes and sundry other bigots so authors actually look at your site rather than avoiding it due to the deserved reputation the comments section now has.
People respect your reviews. They don’t respect the culture you’ve let fester here and its hurting what you’re trying to achieve.
Do something about it.
Which is worse?
1) an unmoderated cesspool full of turds
2) a semi-moderated cesspool where the turds that slip through the filter appear to be approved
3) no comments at all
on second thoughts, just ban prince
I second the motion to ban Prince. Dude can’t take a hint, and thinks he can just logic himself out of public-displays of intolerance by throwing more word garbage at it.
He’s also mentioned me… *takes quick count* nine times by name in last night’s posts about how he doesn’t fixate on me.
This is not Bryce, retard.
Thanks for the hit job, Hank!
I didn’t think I could like Melan more than I already did, but you proved me wrong.
Rather than saying “I stand by Melan because I know him as a person and this is not representative of his character,” you’re saying “thanks for sharing actual racist shit Melan said! It makes me a bigger fan!”
You really need to examine your life choices. So does Melan if he’s ok with this.
You should pay more attention to your DM blasts.
You’re a little late to the struggle session.
The troon brigade and alphabet mafia officially show up here nine days ago.
Mao would be displeased.
Are you off your meds or something? I think you need some help.
Oh. Wait. I see. You’re accusing me of a conspiracy to “brigade” this thread. Have you ever heard the word projection?
I come here for the adventure reviews. Witnessing this dumpster fire was a side benefit. I let this one burn for a weekend before coming back, and I must say, it was worth it.
And you sir, are an absolute treasure. Burn baby burn! Can you start a YouTube channel where we can see how you live? I’d totally like and subscribe.
Seriously Bryce, just delete this whole comment section, it’s a disgrace. This is what you get when you allow politics into a comment section or forum that only ever should be about TTRPGs. The only rule that should apply is: this site is about discussing games and only games, NO POLITICS ALLOWED. If r/osr followed that rule too, it would be a far better place – even for Reddit – than the low-grade, near-worthless place to engage in actual meaningful discussion of old-school DnD that it currently is.
I appreciate people shitting on the floor of my living room. It’s exactly what I want to find when I return home.