The state of Post-OSR content

[The Heretic]

For a point of reference, I went through Doctor Who from Baker on-wards surrounded by friends who were rabid fans. With each new incarnation, I called it as I saw it---garbage versus quality.

I will now pompously say that history has proven me to be mostly correct in my real-time Whovian judgements. I have a reasonably acute shit-detector. And by "shit" I mean things that are just not made well...it's almost independent of whether I personally like its style or not.

Hmm, the fact that you like Doctor Who to begin with makes me doubt you have a very good shit detector.

<ducks>

</trollmode>

<Doctor Who just isn't my thing.>

 

[Hemlock]

There's a reason why it's been emulated over the years. 5e has a version, don't they? Pathfinder also released something like it for 1e (and maybe even 2e, I'm not sure).

5E's version of the basic rules is good, but while it restricts itself horizontally ("only" 4 character classes, no additional subclasses) it doesn't restrict itself vertically (spans the full level 1-20).

As a pedagogical tool I think the Red Box set has the right idea. 5E's Basic Set apparently has different design goals: it's trying to be a complete, free game. (Needs more play examples though, a la Rath and Delsenora.)

 

[squeen]

Hmm, the fact that you like Doctor Who to begin with makes me doubt you have a very good shit detector.

See how much I am capable of overlooking to perceive the essence of a thing?

Seriously...you spoiled brats of the 80's & 90's...there was a time (before Star Wars...before even the animated LotR) when all my D&D group of friends and I had for fantasy or SciFi was the original Star Trek, 2001, Tolkien & Asimov (books), Doctor Who and the Harryhausen Sinbad movies.

NO VCRs EITHER! NO UNCUT MOVIES ON TV!

D&D was a godsend for our starved imaginations and copious amount of free time.

I'm not sure the fantasy glut has helped us.

 

[Beoric]

There are, but refusing to study and learn for the past is arrogant in the extreme.

What is refusing to study and learn from the past after 1984?

There are no good D&D editions other than the one you started with. Non-classic playstyles are garbage. Character classes that deviate from the 4 basic tropes are garbage. There are no good Star Wars movies that deviate from the standard form. The LoTR movies are garbage because they deviate from the books. There are no good Dr. Who's after Tom Baker.

I'm not saying being nonpolitically conservative is a bad thing, but I really think it is a you thing. I mean, maybe you are uber-flexible in your personal life, but we don't see much of it here.

 

[The Heretic]

See how much I am capable of overlooking to perceive the essence of a thing?

That's true.

Seriously...you spoiled brats of the 80's & 90's...there was a time (before Star Wars...before even the animated LotR) when all my D&D group of friends and I had for fantasy or SciFi was the original Star Trek, 2001, Tolkien & Asimov (books), Doctor Who and the Harryhausen Sinbad movies.

What about Blake's 7? If I'm going to watch British sci-fi with terrible production values, I'm going to watch that over Doctor Who. I suppose it came out right at the same time as Star Wars though.

Yes, I remember those dark days before Star Wars. Logan's Run (the TV series, blech!). Million Dollar Man. I saw Star Wars when I was four(ish) and didn't look back.

 

[squeen]

That's true.



What about Blake's 7? If I'm going to watch British sci-fi with terrible production values, I'm going to watch that over Doctor Who. I suppose it came out right at the same time as Star Wars though.

Yes, I remember those dark days before Star Wars. Logan's Run (the TV series, blech!). Million Dollar Man. I saw Star Wars when I was four(ish) and didn't look back.

Blake's 7, yeah. Tomorrow People....and 70's comics.

I watched the All New Uncanny X-men go to pot after John Byrne left the series. It was a an eye opener on the corrosive effects of mass popularity. Seriesly folks...I didn't see the drop in quality coming---I had no life context. It took me completely by surprise. Childhood trauma.

 

[squeen]

What is refusing to study and learn from the past after 1984?

There are no good D&D editions other than the one you started with. Non-classic playstyles are garbage. Character classes that deviate from the 4 basic tropes are garbage. There are no good Star Wars movies that deviate from the standard form. The LoTR movies are garbage because they deviate from the books. There are no good Dr. Who's after Tom Baker.

Over-simplified and off-point. I am not going to bother correcting this. You hear (from me) what you expect to hear---when it conflicts with your thinking, I get lumped into a conceptual box that's easier to process. Whatever...

 

[The1True]

There are, but refusing to study and learn for the past is arrogant in the extreme.

I agree with this 100%. That is why I, and I assume many others, am here. This does not mean we should reject the present, however.

 

[The1True]

Harlson was eceptional.

Yeah man, Woody's always great!

 

[The1True]

Wait a second! I thought we were going from B/X to 3e nostolgia...do we HAVE to take a pit-stop in Metzner's BECMI daydream?

Yessssssss

 

[The1True]

and I had for fantasy or SciFi was the original Star Trek, 2001, Tolkien & Asimov (books), Doctor Who and the Harryhausen Sinbad movies.

Dude! What about Battlestar Galactica!!!!

 

[The Heretic]

Dude! What about Battlestar Galactica!!!!

Squeen-o was talking about pre-Star Wars fantasy and sci-fi, therefore excluding BSG. BSG is awesome though, yes.

 

[Yora]

I'm currently dabbling with a Stars Without Number campaign to take a break from my usual Sword & Sorcery B/X stuff.

As a system, it's nice. It has all the underlying mechanical framework of D&D. But it is missing the very important mechanic of XP for loot and doesn't really replace it with anything. It even mentions that as an option, but interstellar ruin looter doesn't really quite capture the essence of space exploration like medieval dungeon looter does for fantasy wilderness exploration.
(I think maintaining and improving your space ship might work as an alternative to constantly look for more wealth, but I have to look deeper into the math for that.)

 

[squeen]

I'm currently dabbling with a Stars Without Number campaign to take a break from my usual Sword & Sorcery B/X stuff.

As a system, it's nice. It has all the underlying mechanical framework of D&D. But it is missing the very important mechanic of XP for loot and doesn't really replace it with anything. It even mentions that as an option, but interstellar ruin looter doesn't really quite capture the essence of space exploration like medieval dungeon looter does for fantasy wilderness exploration.
(I think maintaining and improving your space ship might work as an alternative to constantly look for more wealth, but I have to look deeper into the math for that.)

James M. at GROGNARDIA is a big Stars Without Number fan. Maybe shoot him an email? He's always replied to mine. He might even post his response.

 

[Avi]

Seriously...you spoiled brats of the 80's & 90's...there was a time (before Star Wars...before even the animated LotR) when all my D&D group of friends and I had for fantasy or SciFi was the original Star Trek, 2001, Tolkien & Asimov (books), Doctor Who and the Harryhausen Sinbad movies.

"Thunderbirds are go" - "Captain Scarlet"...

 

[Two orcs]

I'm currently dabbling with a Stars Without Number campaign to take a break from my usual Sword & Sorcery B/X stuff.

A mid-point between Star Trek and D&D would be Space Viking. You might loot a world, but the real riches lie in re-introducing technology and re-establishing trade to lost worlds.

 

[Johann]

Episode 4 was good. Episode 5 was very good. Episode 6 was meh. Episode 1 was inane.

Episode 2 was really awful. I was particularly annoyed when Padme, who is at least 10 years older than Anakin and was smart and tough as nails in Ep 1, has her brains leak out her ears and become utterly useless. Bad life choices? How about dating the whiny brat you used to babysit?

Episode 3 was also pretty bad. Anakin's descent into the dark side was pretty unbelievable; not exactly Michael Rosenbaum in Smallville, was it? Anakin wasn't the only one screaming at the end of that movie.

Episode 7: as my teenage daughter said at the time, "At least they get points for recycling?"

I agree 100% regarding the Star Wars movies. I also envy you, as you apparently stopped watching after Ep. 7. I want my $30 and four hours of my life back for Ep. 8+9.

 

[Hemlock]

Episode 2 was really awful. I was particularly annoyed when Padme, who is at least 10 years older than Anakin and was smart and tough as nails in Ep 1, has her brains leak out her ears and become utterly useless. Bad life choices? How about dating the whiny brat you used to babysit?

I agree that Padme is awesome in episode I and awful in episodes II and III, but note: she's not ten years older. The character is fourteen years old in episode I, making her five years older than nine-year-old Anakin, and even the actress would have been about sixteen during principal photography, in 1997. It speaks to her gravitas that you thought she was older than she actually is.

Seriously, you can see where Leia gets her moxie. I love episode I Padme, she's terrific.

P.S. Giving credit where credit is due, in episode II Padme still displays moxie when it comes to everything that doesn't involve romance, including surviving two assassination attempts and rushing to Obi Wan's aid when he is captured. She's not totally brain-dead, just selectively.

 

[Beoric]

I agree that Padme is awesome in episode I and awful in episodes II and III, but note: she's not ten years older. The character is fourteen years old in episode I, making her five years older than nine-year-old Anakin, and even the actress would have been about sixteen during principal photography, in 1997. It speaks to her gravitas that you thought she was older than she actually is.

Seriously, you can see where Leia gets her moxie. I love episode I Padme, she's terrific.

P.S. Giving credit where credit is due, in episode II Padme still displays moxie when it comes to everything that doesn't involve romance, including surviving two assassination attempts and rushing to Obi Wan's aid when he is captured. She's not totally brain-dead, just selectively.

From the dialog and performances I assumed he was quite a bit younger and she was quite a bit older; I actually assumed she was at least 19 or early 20s when I watched the film. Frankly, for these purposes their apparent ages according to the performances is more important than notes in other media, or even throwaway mentions in the film that nobody catches.

Of course the film never got a re-watch from me, so these are my impressions from 23 years ago.

 

[squeen]

P.S. Giving credit where credit is due, in episode II Padme still displays moxie when it comes to everything that doesn't involve romance, including surviving two assassination attempts and rushing to Obi Wan's aid when he is captured. She's not totally brain-dead, just selectively.

Lots of folks make some bad decisions when it involves matters of the heart.