The Lost Leagues / The Shadow Pearl

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Fun short conversations that give the NPCs personalities...just don't clog the text with it. Either up-front or in an appendix.
Also, a little is good, and a lot is very bad IMO.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Is this useful or self indulgent stuffing? There is a table entry for each pair of notable knight.
I think overheard conversations that provide the PCs with relevant information are useful. Otherwise it is several lines of flavour or set dressing, and should be evaluated like any other flavour text. You have 25 lines of flavour here, of which only a quarter will be used. Is that an efficient presentation of material? What if you could cut it down to one short conversation, which also conveys useful information provided that PCs take the time to listen?
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
This module is almost done. My vain hope is that it sets a good standard for non-dungeon modules and a line of intra-hex crawls can be built on top of it. I will soon present it for your merciless critique!
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
The Shadow Pearl (first draft)

Looking for critique mainly on the language, layout, and probable gameplay. If you get satisfaction from pointing out typos I'd love give you powers to comment in the document directly. Last in the document I've written what's to be added if you ask for something already there you will be cursed at.
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
I could have sworn bunt meant the same as bundle. It’s a bundle of herbs. The attack profile is a unit’s attack in mass combat.
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
Slightly updated version with a few grammar fixes and the map and a couple of notes on storming the Keep.
 
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Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Not from what I have read so far, I was about a quarter of the way through before I got distracted by Christmas presents. But I have a long list of stuff to read before I will be able to read it critically (I still haven't got through the design contest entries). Reading and processing the villager information in particular is going to take some thought. I expect everyone else is in the same boat.

Also, it's hard for me to assess the parts of it that rely on ACKS jargon; I can't see information respecting them for use outside of mass combat. But I don't want to keep picking at it until I have had a chance to read the whole thing, which may take a while.

Definitely need to give a nod to "Looks and speaks like a callused thumb", though.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
OK from the sparse responses here, is it unreadably dull?
Yes. I've been feeling guilty that I haven't found a decent sliver of time.
Just too many things on my to do list---don't feel discourage.

I have learned an important lesson however --- if you want feedback, parse it out in small easy to consume chunks.
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
I plan on making a B/X version too once it's playtested (later because I'll have to include some kind of mass combat system). The main things that differ between ACKS and B/X:
Armor class: 0 = unarmored, 2 = leather, 4 = chain, 6 = plate
Explorer class = Halfling (a fighter than hides outdoors and has +1 to missile attacks, like the ACKS fighter it also has a damage bonus)
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
I have learned an important lesson however --- if you want feedback, parse it out in small easy to consume chunks.
Yes, this makes it much easier. Look at the discussion RoeeAV started over just two rooms.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Hokey Dokey, I read it last night --- not every single word, but most of it (and skimmed the rest). The key (for me) was printing it out.

Overall Impressions: This is cool. It has a lot going for it. In addition to your deft creativity that you've already been showcasing over in the Vault Thread (which, to be honest, is head and shoulders above my own when it comes to interesting details), Shadow Pearl also has the potential of bringing something rare to the hobby---a mass combat scenario as adventure climax. I understand you are leveraging the ACKS Domains at War system, but I don't feel like there is much "out there" that makes use of it. This has a potential to be a true gem in that it doesn't just dump you on the battle field, but also sets the table for a very nice "slow boil", i.e. there's potentially a lot to do BEFORE the big battle.

We should all stop to think about that for a minute --- rather than a Big Boss Fight at the end of an adventure, here's The Big Battle. In many ways, that's a missing piece for D&D. We see it in Tolkien, but good ol' TSR never really delivered a template. Shadow Pearl has (almost?) all the ingredients to blaze a new trail. Anyone ever wished they'd run the Battle of Emeridy Meadows outside of The Temple of Elemental Evil? WE ALL NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DO THIS EFFECTIVELY IN OUR GAMES!

In terms of implementation, you've stuffed this PDF with all sorts of great details. You clearly thought this through, and have a notion of how the players could succeed --- there's a call to arms here, if they choose it. Adventurers can become heroes. They just need to be careful and pick up all the scattered pieces.

I also like the fact that it's both big in scope (raise an army and take on the Despot), and also very low-level/grounded---take on a gang of werewolves. Like your note says, this is scenario is going to collapse if the party can sling multiple fireballs. You say 5th-level party? I think 3rd/4th. The goal is to avoid direct confrontation and rally the peasants.

That's the praise side of things. @The1True didn't like my critique, so I'm going to tuck it away behind a spoiler-tag. You probably don't need to bother looking, as something I've been made keenly aware of over the past year or so I've been posting here: I am a corner-case. My tastes do not align with the majority. I have no legitimate credentials to be a critic, nor am I such an experienced DM in the sense that I've "seen/done it all". If you want an expert's opinion, hire Byrce to be your content-partner and give you some feedback --- seriously, I think that's worth doing and he would enjoy it. If-and-when I go to publish, Bryce will be my first stop (with $$'s in hand to make it worth his time).

That's the disclaimer. Next up my critical opinion.
 
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squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
If you don't want to end on a negative note, look away, because I'm not going to coddle like the misguided Educational System (and their selfish Boomer parents) did to victimize the Millennials. :) It will be a bit rough.
First impression: the format looks amateur. There's a nice density of information (and a lot of info), but the presentation looks like 1990's M$ Word. I've been doing word processing since 1980, publishing hundreds of technical reports and conference papers professionally for 30 years, I use LaTeX because it kicks everything else's ass (looking at you In Design)---and this looks like you care about your ideas, and not-so-much how they appear on the page. You have not been kind to your Reader's eyeballs. Here's my three five lowest-hanging-fruit:
  1. There needs to be more space between the two columns. A single em-space is insufficient to break up the perception of a wall-of-words. Steal from the outer margins. Most modern printers can handle 1/4" margins.
  2. Serif fonts (Times Romans in particular) look dated. Everyone started using them because they gobbled up the swill Microsoft was dishing out when they first started using Word. San Serif (literally without little letter decorations) looks less cluttered for small print.
  3. There is a monotony of font sizes and a general lack of (well used) white spaces. Lay-out is almost like painting a picture. The result needs to please the eye...and the eye occasionally needs a rest. White space allows for sections/ideas to be compartmentalized in the Reader's brain. It let's them consume in small chunks. You've hit them with a fire hose.
  4. You haven't made good use of tables or bullets. That's a whole other topic.
  5. Do you hate commas?
I get that this is a rough draft. You're so excited that you've written all this stuff up, and just want to get it out there. You wanted some feedback on your ideas. Making it pretty can come later, right?

Wrong. Lack of consideration for the Reader means no one reads it. If it's hard/impenetrable (or just plainly not visually enticing), most folks will give up. Time is precious. That's why art helps sell D&D products. Eye candy is like a trail of crumbs that leads your audience down the Rabbit Hole (or into the Witch's Oven!). Good layout (like nice maps & tables) are artwork too. All are vehicles for conveying information.

--- b r e a t h ---

Next, I mentioned how you've envisioned a path-to-glory for the players. It's good to have a notion of how the adventure can be won, BUT I think you are walking the line between winnable path and only path. You may have a disguised railroad here, and I think it's affected your choice of content.

I'll elaborate. While there's a tremendous amount of detail, and nice little (extraneous?) bits---like the NPCs in the scenario hooks---I think you imagine there is only one (good) way things play out---the battle at the end. Most of the actual playable stats solely support this outcome.

But (and here comes the Existential DM Question in a moment), there's a surprising lack of boots-on-the-ground info. Everything is abstracted...in a sense. The whole scene is described in a weird sort of quasi- third person.

"What?"
, you say.

"I've jammed this thing full of evocative details. I put in stats. I've even included a selection of conversations between NPC's as flavor!"

"What on Earth is squeen getting on about?"


OK. Here's what I'm struggling with:

You and others (in particular @The1True's Volatile Skies comes to mind) tell the DM what you think he needs to run the sandbox---all the pieces in your mind that describes the necessary action-elements you envision playing out. It's like a proto-script for a movie.

But it doesn't really have the mundane details the players will actually interact with. It's something less than a keyed dungeon room. It's not written from the perspective of "Here's a concrete setting...now watcha gonna do, PCs?". It's instead painted in broad strokes with the expectation that the DM can put meat on the skeleton. It's more than just an idea, but something less than a playable module (in the traditional sense). Even with a movie, it's frequently not the plot that makes it great---it's the little moments.

This is a problem everything except keyed dungeons suffer from, in my opinion. That's why they work...and things like city adventures and domain-play seldom do. Why, I imagine, splat-books can be read, but not played. They, like Shadow Pearl, are more elaborate ideas than a place to adventure. For example, the Dam-Dungeon at the end of Deep Carbon Observatory works for me, but all the lead-up (river vignettes) are just border-line okay (again, for me)---what happens if the players don't stay on-script? As DM, it's all on me. Sure, I'll manage, but it's not terribly exciting for me to see up-front that I'll be flying without a net for large stretches of the action.

That's the Existential DM Question: Is a written adventure truly an adventure if it requires a DM to improvise large portions on the fly?

A DM has to be able to improvise, I know, but I also know I am not at my best if it continues for an extended period. I feel like that sort of game-play is not quite D&D---it's more story-like...too linear. Too predictable? ... Too loosey-goosey make-believe for a great game.

The part of Shadow Pearl that is complete is the mass combat at the end (and that requires Domains at War and therefore comes with a steep learning curve). At no other time could I imagine (without prepping large swathes of info that doesn't exist in detail) dumping a PC anywhere in the Lost Leagues and being able to immediate describe the environment except in a vague way. In no location --- even the Baron's Keep --- able I am to describe a detailed boots-on-the-ground PC experience in the first-person, like I can in a traditional dungeon crawl.

"So what? Does everything have to be a dungeon crawl?", you ask.

I don't know. But we do know when that first-person experience arrived on the wargaming scene in Arneson's basement...that's when D&D was born. That's what people like. I know my players prefer it...and seeing first-person details in a product make me want to take them there.

Is there a usable D&D product besides a keyed "dungeon" or random tables for procedural improv?
Does a 3rd thing exist? How do we collectively bridge the gap that allows the Big Battle to be a fitting capstone for a campaign?

Dunno.

Now, back to Shadow Pearl in the specific:

It lacks that detail. You've thoroughly imagined the final battle...but the arrival is sketchy. What's it like that first session when the PC's literally land in the Lost Leagues? Where can they go? Who do they see to talk to? What can they touch? Where's the seduction of the slow reveal?

Imagine that there is a random table that each PC rolls on as they enter the Pearl. It drops them naked into the environment. They are immediately in exploration mode---what happens next?

There's a lot I think is missing to make that happened out-of-the-box. (e.g. Where is a detailed key that makes the Baron's Keep come alive? Something that transforms it into an unforgettable piece of fantasy real estate? A typically cope-out, IMO, is a random table in lieu of real content.) I think the solution is play testing --- BUT if you are a story-leaning super-creative improv-DM, you may not notice that anything is lacking. I am not. Hex crawls and city adventurers (as written) leave me feeling flat. They make me sigh at the amount of work I see myself doing, and I think I might as well just write the whole darn thing myself....keying it to my comfort level. I can't even read them and get excited (because that excitement come from the anticipation of actual play) --- and in the zoomed-out sandbox-product, I can't mentally connect the dots.

So that's my beef. Sorry to be such a Party Pooper.
If it's any comfort, I think you've tapped into a hobby-wide problem.

EDIT: I do think this product is a gem worth polishing. BUT it is going to take a magnitude more level-of-effort. That's not because it's bad, but the opposite in fact---it's because it could be great (and all great things require a pound of flesh as sacrifice to be born).
 
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Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
I more or less agree with @squeen, both in his praise and criticism.

One thing I noticed is that the module is relentlessly focused on the core story. There is no break from it, no room for screwing around doing other things, few NPCs with sidequests or their own personal unrelated dramas to leverage.

Another comment is that many of the entries are flavourful but not really interactive. Many of them focus on the core story, but the vignettes don't actually provide the players with anything to do. I think there is very little room in a module for elements that provide flavour and do nothing else. At a minimum they should provide valuable information, but it is better if they have flavour, provide information, and do it in a way that requires the players to interact with the scene, where their choices can have an impact on the outcome.

Finally, for a scenario that involves assembling peasants to revolt against powerful and vicious oppressors, there is a lack of interactive material regarding said peasants. The lengthy list of named peasants is organized as essentially a rumour delivery system, and the individual needs, fears and desires of the peasants is not included. How are the PCs to gain their trust? Who is the voice pushing revolt, and how can the PCs support him or her? Who is afraid of the consequences of revolt, and who speaks out against it, and how can the PCs either convince them, or convince the villagers not to follow them? Which villagers are liable to betray the revolt, and why, and what can the PCs do to stop it? What can the PCs do to (a) convince the villagers that the wolves can be beaten and (b) gain their trust that the PCs won't abandon them or fail, like others have done before? At a minimum I think you need a villager who needs to be rescued, a villager who needs to be supported, a villager who needs to be convinced, a villager who needs to be discredited, and a villager who needs to be prevented from betraying the rebellion.
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
In review - I'll focus on the content, since squeen has covered most of what there is to be said about the format (and I'm surprised to say that I agree with him on most points). So here it goes:

Part 1

The Background is a decent length, but very dense, making it hard to remember specific details about it. I read through it less than three minutes ago, and at most right afterwards I could tell you that 1) there's a baron who slaughtered rebels and for whatever reason it gave him and his cronies lycanthropy, 2) there's a monastery somewhere, 3) the barony disappeared into a marble, and 4) a statue of a Fair Lady was thrown into a lake. Without peeking, I can tell you that I don't remember the difference between what happened 30 years ago versus 36 years ago, or what the names of anyone involved were, or what happened to the monastery... perhaps a sign that you are cramming in too much information. The prose of it all is reminiscent of the dreaded "failed-novelist syndrome", so if you were to cut anything down for the sake of simplicity, I'd start there. Otherwise the background conveys what needs to be conveyed, and the premise is solid (albeit muddled).

Your Notes to the DM section is jarringly candid about the difficulty of the adventure, perhaps too casual about things. Your description of the Shadow Pearl and its powers are also somewhat contradictory - it radiates darkness and eats light, but players can see what's inside of it? You need light to see. It's mentioned as being unnaturally heavy, but you have a contingency for what happens if a player replaces an eye with it (that'd be like replacing an eye with a billiard ball). Likewise, you mention that it is nearly indestructible, but then provide that smashing it against a +3 thing will destroy it (very anti-climactic, why not just make it fully indestructible?). The shadow powers of it feel nebulous, and need hard definitions for what it does or doesn't do. This all feels problematic, like you're trying to force the whole "shadow" thing about it unnecessarily. I do like the idea that it can be used as magical ammunition and that one can map out the Barony if they analyze the pearl at length - that's pretty cool.

Entering the Shadow pearl seems odd, and supremely esoteric. What happens if the players don't identify the peral for what it is, or find out about the ritual required to enter it? No adventure for them, I guess... might as well smash the thing for 27,690 "Chaotic-act" XP. Historically these types of things hook people into them by being a sort of trap (touching it sucks them in or whatever) - think Ravenloft's Barovian mists, or EX1's Dungeonland. I thought this would be the same when I read the premise, but was mildly confused when it turned out the party could come and go as they please (not that those types of places wouldn't work as adventure sites, but it certainly lowers the stakes). You may want to reconsider the accessibility of the Barony. Also "non-henchmen refuse to enter the pearl"... a blanket homogenizing of all NPCs together like that makes things less fun, I believe - maybe that's one of those things better left to individual cases and DM discretion.

Also, the value of the pearl being so high - a sticky situation. I could easily see groups finding it, assessing it's value, then selling it, skipping the adventure entirely. Probably more reason for it to be able to trap people inside (the party probably isn't going to sell it if one of their own is inside; instead they will insist on researching it, which is what you seem to be counting on them doing). The "Weather Inside" section feels out of place, and should probably put with everything else being described inside the pearl.

The preamble in the Plot section seems contradictory - you can't really get away with saying that something is supposed to be some way and then explaining that there is no way for it to be. Honestly, this thing needs impetus; a call to action to explore the pearl and deal with the Baron. I know it sounds like leading the party around by the nose, but I guarantee any players will have more fun if there is some sort of urgency surrounding the adventure rather than the take-it-or-leave-it approach you've got so far.

Introducing the Adventure... again, contradictions and needlessness. The pearl needs light to survive, but light literally can't penetrate its exterior. Also, who cares if it needs light or not? Those are minutiae that players won't notice or care about, so why bother including it at all? If there's no light, is everyone inside just straight-up dead already? These kinds of additions complicate more than they enhance the adventure, and I say it should just be cut. Also, none of what is mentioned here is especially "introductory" to the adventure, just saying.

Previous Owners - most of this feels like needless background information that won't affect play, won't matter to players, and won't come up in-game, which makes it extraneous and clutters the adventure. When Bryce rails against "this room used to be..." issues, this feels like the sort of thing he's talking about. Either make something directly applicable to play, or cut it. I get that you're trying to thread hooks into it and semi-randomize the events surrounding how the players come across the pearl, but honestly, as a DM I'd rather have a compelling, interesting, and fun pre-selected hook rather than fiddling around with these extra details. If you're using this section as a substitute for hooks in general, I'd say it's a bit overly complicated for what should be a straightforward process of getting the party to play the adventure. The content is fine, the NPCs are good, but the way it's being presented both for usage and as options just clutters things up. There's also a lot of "tell, not show" stuff like the kids being afraid of the goblin that would be better shown and not told.

Rumors - you're using this as exposition for the Background of the adventure in most cases, which is again a "tell, not show" approach that's rarely ideal. I do like the Witch woman and her prose, especially if it turns out to be a bit of a useful clue for the party later on (the best rumors should draw attention to something important, or act as clues and/or something useful to the players, otherwise you're just narrating background by proxy).

Jesus, moving on the page three...
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
Part 2

Opponents - a solid bit with a good focus on appearances rather than background stuff the party won't see/notice. I believe this section may belong in elsewhere though, closer to the actual encounter location; its present location will incur serious page-flipping to find when running the actual game. There are a ton of caveats to remember too, and the general non-embeddedness of the entry means that the DM will either constantly be going back to these pages or they will forget everything on them. Stuff like the cloud of ravens around the Keep are better kept with the description of the Keep, otherwise the DM will read it now and forget later when he's describing the Keep to the players. The content is fine, everything just needs to be wrangled into the places in the document where the DM will actually need to know them.

Strategy - This just feels WAY too lengthy, and filled with too much extra details that will be a headache for a DM. Honestly, if I were to read this and try to run it, I would default to just saying "fuck it" and run all their actions my own way - my players wouldn't notice either way, since nothing added here makes the adventure especially awesome or memorable. It all strikes me as just being very dry, rote information. It's nice that you're trying to make things dynamic, but I think this is just a case of poor execution. Also, I loathe "% chance" to do stuff or have things be a certain way... just do it! What's to gain by omitting any of it? If there's meant to be a chance of failure, that's what checks are for.

The Ghostwood - such uniformity in your river dimensions. How about "at it's narrowest points, the river is 55' wide" instead? I mean, unless this thing is a man-made canal... nature is hardly so consistent. I like the vibe of your forest otherwise, but again, this feels like it might be in the wrong spot in the adventure, put up prematurely before the DM will need to know it. Or maybe I'm just put off by the fact that it's stuck between two entirely unrelated sections (Strategy, Crafting Weapons).

Crafting Weapons - good god, this is long for what it is... and again there's too much extra information. Do we honestly need to know how many logs a lumberjack cuts down in a day's work? This should really be shorter, and maybe even moved to an Annex section instead of being smack in the midst of things. Everything seems overcomplicated (and thus unfun for players and a headache for the DM).

People of Tarvale - there's a lot here, but also a lot of sticky points for the DM running things. Just as a casual example of providing too much in your adventure: you mention "Since time immemorial they have worshipped The Fair Lady who bestowed Seven Graces on the valley." - Ok, sure... but what happens when the party hears that and asks random NPC villager #74 the obvious follow-up question "so what are the Seven Graces anyway?" - DM is left hanging, game is halted, pages are flipped, players regret having even asked. This kind of expository/background stuff is best kept minimalized to close those gaps by virtue of omission. Otherwise, you invite questions for which the DM has no answers at hand.

The First Contact encounter is likewise needlessly convoluted for what it is. Randomized butting-in and promises of later meet-ups... it just seems to be making a massive fuss over what should be a straightforward interaction. You also have combined the First Contact event with the NPC roster - those don't seem like they belong together - you can at least move the roster to an Annex (because it will be referred to frequently) and then direct the DM to roll on it once to generate the starting encounter, otherwise the DM is perpetually flipping back to page 5 instead of somewhere more quick and convenient to access. The NPCs themselves are good, and I like that you've included the quotes next to each one for more evocative flavor.

Movement and Terrain - I'm torn on this. On one hand it's good information to have on hand, but at the same time, I feel like overland travel is the purview of the rulebooks for the system and not based on individual adventures (especially if they don't align). Same goes for hunting - if your system already has a Survival check or whatever to gather food, then why bother including it in here? What WOULD be nice to know is what exactly can be hunted in the area (Deer? Bison? Zebras? Stegosaurus? Give us something cool to work with! We already know hunting is a thing that exists). I appreciate you making each area distinct in the way that travel and encounters work, but again, I get the feeling that this could be massively condensed. This would benefit from the use of tables and whatnot (but that's already been discussed). Your encounters are good enough, but some could/should be simplified (Wrathful Face in the Bark, for example, is annoyingly complex for what is essentially just a subset of further encounters).

Hex map looks good - nice and clear and terse. Could use a marker indicating where the party arrives in the Barony though.

To be continued...
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
EDIT: I do think this product is a gem worth polishing. BUT it is going to take a magnitude more level-of-effort. That's not because it's bad, but the opposite in fact---it's because it could be great (and all great things require a pound of flesh as sacrifice to be born).
Yes, I think the best praise you can give a first draft is that it is worth fixing, which this is.
 
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