By Greg Gillespie Self Published S&W Levels 1-7
Gundgathol lies in ruin. Over 250 years ago, an evil host rose from the underdark and pushed the dwarves out of their ancestral mountains. Since that time, orcs and worse have defiled their sacred halls. In recent days, the high dwarven clerics cast their runestones and read the portents: the time has come to retake Gundgathol. Are you brave (or fooloish) enough to enter Dwarrowdeep?
This 336 adventure attempts, once again, to do Moria. It has specific keys, using about half its page count, for about thirteen different areas, and then some D1 hexcrawl & procedural generation for other Moria locations. It’s using a B2-like descriptive format. Do you want that slightly generic feel? Are you willing to put up with doing your own maps (using geomorphs) and keying them and having a generic-ish vibe? Great, then this is for you.
I am, clearly, not having this shit anymore.
It’s another attempt at Moria. Moria is too big to key so you get a hex crawl map to get you from location to location, ala D1, and then some rules for using provided geomorphs to create levels and deeps, and some rules on how to populate them. So, you get some DMG like tables and then, the last step, step 15, is “Interpret the Results.” Great. Bring it to life, he means. If I wanted to do that I’d write my own from scratch. I’m not buying an adventure to create it from scratch, procedurally. I’m buying an adventure so I DON’T have to do that. Just grab the old Moria supplement and the DMG and crank some shit out. Why, exactly, do you need this booklet? “But Bryce, how else can you do Moria?” Well, maybe, don’t do fucking Moria if you can’t figure it out. Besides, the Fellowship Moria thing was just a trip through it, not a delve.
Ok, so, no, some of you are not going to be happy with that analysis. Let us, instead, forget all about the procedural generation thing. Let’s pretend it doesn’t exist. Let’s instead review the maps/keys/areas that are presented. This is six entrance areas and seven other location sites, most of which have 100 or so rooms, or more. (with a notable exception in the ruined tower on the mountain peak that has a dragon.) Let’s just review that, shall we? After all, I don’t really care how much something costs, or background shit or any of that. Let’s just look at the value we’re getting for our $35 for those thirteen areas.
“Four Dwarven Skeletal Guards AL: CE, AC: 4, HD: 1, HP: 8, 7, 5, 4, #AT: 1, DMG: 1d6, lay on the floor here. They burn with malice for the living. One has a pouch with 3d6gp and another has a Seax Knife +1.”
Laying on the floor! Burning with malice for the living! Have you ever read such majesty before on the written page?! Does your heart not leap with joy at the prospects of running this room?! Are you not entertained?! No? You’re not? Ah, then how about this little gem of a room:
“The Orc Rat-Master AL: CE, AC: 6 (Studded and mShield), HD: 1, HP: 5, #AT: 1, Weapon: Whip (1d4), Scimitar (1d6), and Dagger (1d4), Treasure: 5gp, 8ep, 9sp, 2cp, uses this room as his quarters. Under a stone in the floor, under his bed of dirty furs, is a Huge Broken Pale Green Variscite (20gp), a Large Transparent Green Augelite (24gp), and a Small Deep Blue Azurite (20gp).”
Of course! Masterful!
There’s nothing here. It’s just a hair above a minimalistic keying style. Sure, there’s some rooms that have more text. To no real effect. There are no real evocative descriptions anywhere in this. There is, though, padding: “The Ruined Temple of Thaneduhr: This rough- hewn temple to Thaneduhr All-Father was defaced and defiled by the orcs. It now lies in ruin.” That’s a meaningless couple of sentences, especially to start with. It goes on to describe a large statue with the face changed to that of the orc god, rubble, a bloody altar, and some bodies and chained prisoners. There’s some potential here, but it’s described lifelessly. The rooms are just padded out with stats and what the monster is wielding, and treasure. If this is removed you may get, mostly, one sentence per room. “The orcs here are wagering over a fight between two stirge” The alcove contains a pile of decaying corpses infested with rot grubs. Something partially buried in the dirt gleams at the back of this dead end. There’s no life in any of this. I’d have much preferred to gloss over the stats and weapons and instead have an extra sentence or two to bring the aggressively genetic minimalism to life. Because that’s what you should be paying for in an adventure.
I can roll on a table. I can find a program to roll on a table for me and spit out a generic dungeon. This is not the heart of D&D. The heart of D&D is the magic of imagination and the weirdness of the interactivity. That’s what you’re paying a designer for. Otherwise just go play some Angband.
Barrowmaze had some life. The towers thing had some life. The Caverns thing was, as is this, aggressively minimal and generic in a way that doesn’t work with the adventure. This needs A LOT more of step 15. A LOT more of it.
“Dwarrowdeep is the single largest dwarven themed adventure in the history of role-playing games.” I don’t love you, you don’t love me. Da Da Da”
This is $35 at DriveThru.There’s no preview because it’s a zip file blah blah blah.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/384269/Dwarrowdeep?1892600
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View Comments
Poser Greg strikes again. It seems like he cares about TSR-era aesthetics and illustrators much more than writing actually playable and (god-forbid) enjoyable megadungeon.
Your envy is showing Gus.
'“But Bryce, how else can you do Moria?” Well, maybe, don’t do fucking Moria if you can’t figure it out.'
- QUOTED FOR MOTHERLOVING TRUTH.
Like you, I have the original MERP Moria book and it is all I will ever need to reference for a Moria style adventure. I'm tired of incomplete adventures being advertised as Minimalist or OSR. Bah!
I picked up Arden Vul a year ago and we've been neck deep in glorious Megadungeon crawling ever since. There's plenty in it that I flat out ignore, true, but it's got such solid world building that my work as a GM is SO much easier.
Yep, the MERP Moria module is rigged for win. When I ran a Moria-esque place in my game ... I used the Moria module. Can't bear the obscene eBay prices, guess what? TSR put out a MERP-Moria clone in 1984; it's called Dragons of Desolation and disguised and hidden into the Dragonlance series. It also has a poster-sized map and all the Moria geomorphs a DM could ever want. Say what you want about the DL series, all the stops were pulled out for its maps.
On that note, MERP also released Cirith Ungol, Shelob's Lair and Angmar and hit all out of the park; there's no need to try to recreate these sites; it's been done and they are glorious.
How are you and others referencing MERP Moira as if it is even a dungeon adventure? I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Is this just some bizarre attempt at nerd cred flexing? You would need the whole procedural generation section of dwarrowdeep to even use the MERP module in a game, they aren't in any way comparable.
I can only report on my game and I can assure you that, circa 1985, we were running Moria as if it were an AD&D module using AD&D rules. I'm certain my group wasn't the only one.
The point and I others are making is that it is probably Quixotic, at best, to take on Moria. Not only are you competing against the fictional ur-Dungeon itself, but also against the Moria the readers envisioned in their minds *and* the gaming versions of Moria that came before - such as MERP's version which is exceedingly well done.
"This 336 [page] adventure ... and then some D1 hexcrawl & procedural generation" Like, pick one? You either do the whole thing (Melan could put at least 1000 locations on that page count) or give us some geomorphs and decent tables to stock them on a few dozen pages. This sounds like a worst-of-both-worlds situation!
Maybe we should challenge Melan to create a 1000 location Moria-clone. Bwahahahah.
there are about 1000 keyed locations in dwarrowdeep, on top of the procedural stuff
Bryce’s “review” is terrible, yes, but the general concept mirrors the thoughts of others that I’ve seen who have bothered to attempt a review.
Do they all resemble the examples given in the review?
I had high hopes for this one, as I need a good abandoned dwarven megadungeon for my hexcrawl. Apart from MERP Moria, which other adventures do you recommend me?
I'm still looking for a great one, too. Chantry of the Deepflame is pretty good, albeit a bit confusing in places and suffers from the blight of excessive new monsters and magic items. I'd rank it number 1 so far, but I'm still waiting for the one true Moria adventure to rule them all. The search goes on, I guess.
https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?p=6587
The good parts are better than Bryce gives it credit for, but the flaws are real.
If you pick it up, be sure to also download the free bestiary.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/241383/Bestiary-of-the-Rosewood-Highlands?src=also_purchased
Will check it. Thanks.
Hammers of the God is a great abandoned Dwarven dungeon.
Will take a look at it. Thank you.
Eye of the serpent
Thunderdelve
Deep dwarven delve
Dragon lance I think dl4 Thorbardin
Axe of the dwarvish lords
Mayfair games had a few supplements
Dwarves. Detailed dwarven kingdom of Ostraghar
Dark Folk had a adventure centered around kobolds in a dwarven ruin
Glory Hole dwarven mine by Wee Warriors Dungeon Masters kit #2
Thank you! That helps a lot!
Halls of a Beoull- Dur https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg041.pdf
Fuck I had no idea MERP had good supplements. On it!
YeOldeGeek has posted a few YouTube videos with his thoughts on MERP supplements/adventures.
Many MERP supplements are outstanding and the maps are both detailed and beautiful! I personally would highly recommend them.
Which is a better Moria supplement, 1e or 2e?
Oh! Are you in for delights! I wish I could re-rediscover them.
Probably worth noting, there was an actual Moria dungeon for D&D in White Dwarf #38 called Khazad Dûm, complete with Lotr premades, however it is very vanilla and written like a tournament module.
Yeah there’s a lot of marvellous MERP out there.
Gunderholfen is much better, for a fraction of the price.
Yea verily!
ANGBAND ROUGELIKE TIMEEEEEEE
DCSS QUD TOME4 CDDA DF BROUGE ADOM
Interestingly enough, I just bought a $100 chromebook last night as a dedicated Angband machine for quick pick up and play casual gaming on the sofa, etc.
I'm not sure if it's gonna cut it though. I may need to go ipad with a keyboard or some other more dedicated device to get what I want ... including some retro pc games.
I must not Gus L here. They have similar opinions.
Posion of nostalga aside, its striking to see alike two roads
Diff people, same impressions, remark the hark bells of eh
LETS GO I would factory reset a an old eBay laptop. But I play rougelikes with my Chromebook and it works great.
You could even instal Kumbuntu or Arch on it if you want more.
For retro games? Retroarch is what you want. Its on play store and every other platform.
Have you played the other games I mentioned? Like andband tome4/ eyes of taj mayel was based on lotr before it got dmcad like angband.
Caves of Qud is gamma world and inspired vaults of varrn (circles are funny)
Yeah, I'm familiar with them. But, also, I want to play some old DOS pc games also, an,maybe run a C64 emulator or some such.
But, I also want it to be instant on (or close to it) and some kind of "mobile gaming" thing. Super cas pick up and play. I've got laptops, etc, but, it just don't FEEL right playing angband on the sofa with them. And that Chromebook isn't going to fix it. Which means that the ipad/kb prob isn't either.
IDK. There's got to be something to whip out in line and play some Angband/Ultima 1
Get steamdeck and go play Realms of Antiquity and Nox Archaist.
Sorry for text dump but are you 1 player and like DND?
Whether it's ADOM, IVAN or (arguably) Dwarf Fortress, let's talk about it!
**Rules:**
* Be nice.
* Play roguelikes.
[What's a roguelike?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike)
Popular roguelikes:
* [Ancient Domains of Mystery](http://adom.de/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/ADOM))
* [Angband](http://rephial.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/angband))
* [Brogue](http://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/brogueforum))
* [CataclysmDDA](https://cataclysmdda.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda))
* [Caves of Qud](http://store.steampowered.com/app/333640/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/cavesofqud/))
* [Cogmind](http://www.gridsagegames.com/cogmind/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/cogmind))
* [DoomRL](http://drl.chaosforge.org/)
* [Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup](http://crawl.develz.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/dcss))
* [Dungeonmans](http://www.dungeonmans.com/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dungeonmans))
* [Dungeons of Dredmor](https://dungeonsofdredmor.com/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/dredmor))
* [Golden Krone Hotel](https://www.goldenkronehotel.com/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/goldenkronehotel/))
* [HyperRogue](http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/)
* [Infra Arcana](https://sites.google.com/site/infraarcana/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/InfraArcana/))
* [IVAN](https://attnam.com/)
* [Jupiter Hell](https://jupiterhell.com/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/JupiterHell))
* [NetHack](http://nethack.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/nethack))
* [POWDER](http://www.zincland.com/powder/)
* [Rogue](https://britzl.github.io/roguearchive/)
* [Sil](http://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/)
* [Tales of Maj'Eyal](http://te4.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/ToME4))
* [The Ground Gives Way](http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/thegroundgivesway/))
* [UnReal World](http://www.unrealworld.fi/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/urw))
Popular mobile roguelikes:
* [868-HACK](http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/868-hack/id635749911?mt=8)
* [Ananias](http://ananiasgame.com/)
* [Auro](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.DinofarmAuro&hl=en)
* [Cardinal Quest 2](http://cardinalquest2.com/)
* [Hoplite](http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.magmafortress.hoplite)
* [Pathos: NetHack Codex](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.x10host.pathos) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathos_nethack/))
* [Pixel Dungeon](http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watabou.pixeldungeon) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/pixeldungeon))
* [Sproggiwood](http://freeholdgames.com/?page_id=39)
* [WazHack](http://www.wazhack.com/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/WazHack))
Other useful links:
* Find more awesome roguelikes at [RogueBasin](http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/)
* A [torrented bundle](https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/3dg4p9/roguelike_mega_collection_2015_over_700_free/) of many many roguelikes
* The [ArchiveRL](https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z) project, building a complete archive of roguelikes
* [Roguebase](http://www.roguebase.net/), an RL blog aggregator
* [Roguelike Radio](http://roguelikeradio.com/) podcast for all things roguelike-y
**Roguelike(ish)-Specific Subreddits:**
* [*Roguelike Development*](http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev)
* [*Roguelites*](http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelites)
* [Binding of Isaac](http://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac)
* [Caves](https://www.reddit.com/r/cavesrl/)
* [Crypt of the Necrodancer](http://www.reddit.com/r/necrodancer)
* [Darkest Dungeon](http://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon)
* [Dwarf Fortress](http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress)
* [Elona](https://www.reddit.com/r/Elona/)
* [FTL](http://reddit.com/r/ftlgame)
* [KeeperRL](https://www.reddit.com/r/keeperrl)
* [NEO Scavenger](https://www.reddit.com/r/neoscavenger)
* [Pathos](http://www.reddit.com/r/pathos_nethack/)
* [Spelunky](http://www.reddit.com/r/spelunky)
* [TomeNET](https://www.reddit.com/r/TomeNET/)
* [Warsim: The Realm of Aslona](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarsimRpg/)
* [Wayward](http://www.reddit.com/r/wayward)
* [Streets of Rogue](http://www.reddit.com//r/streetsofrogue)
**Chat:**
* #rgrd on irc.quakenet.org
* #roguelikes on irc.synirc.com
* [/r/roguelikes Discord](https://discord.gg/t9cVHhj)
Whether it's ADOM, IVAN or (arguably) Dwarf Fortress, let's talk about it!
[What's a roguelike?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike)
Popular roguelikes:
* [Ancient Domains of Mystery](http://adom.de/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/ADOM))
* [Angband](http://rephial.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/angband))
* [Brogue](http://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/brogueforum))
* [CataclysmDDA](https://cataclysmdda.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda))
* [Caves of Qud](http://store.steampowered.com/app/333640/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/cavesofqud/))
* [Cogmind](http://www.gridsagegames.com/cogmind/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/cogmind))
* [DoomRL](http://drl.chaosforge.org/)
* [Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup](http://crawl.develz.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/dcss))
* [Dungeonmans](http://www.dungeonmans.com/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dungeonmans))
* [Dungeons of Dredmor](https://dungeonsofdredmor.com/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/dredmor))
* [Golden Krone Hotel](https://www.goldenkronehotel.com/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/goldenkronehotel/))
* [HyperRogue](http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/)
* [Infra Arcana](https://sites.google.com/site/infraarcana/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/InfraArcana/))
* [IVAN](https://attnam.com/)
* [Jupiter Hell](https://jupiterhell.com/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/JupiterHell))
* [NetHack](http://nethack.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/nethack))
* [POWDER](http://www.zincland.com/powder/)
* [Rogue](https://britzl.github.io/roguearchive/)
* [Sil](http://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/)
* [Tales of Maj'Eyal](http://te4.org/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/ToME4))
* [The Ground Gives Way](http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/thegroundgivesway/))
* [UnReal World](http://www.unrealworld.fi/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/urw))
Popular mobile roguelikes:
* [868-HACK](http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/868-hack/id635749911?mt=8)
* [Ananias](http://ananiasgame.com/)
* [Auro](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.DinofarmAuro&hl=en)
* [Cardinal Quest 2](http://cardinalquest2.com/)
* [Hoplite](http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.magmafortress.hoplite)
* [Pathos: NetHack Codex](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.x10host.pathos) ([sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathos_nethack/))
* [Pixel Dungeon](http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watabou.pixeldungeon) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/pixeldungeon))
* [Sproggiwood](http://freeholdgames.com/?page_id=39)
* [WazHack](http://www.wazhack.com/) ([sub](http://www.reddit.com/r/WazHack))
Other useful links:
* Find more awesome roguelikes at [RogueBasin](http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/)
* A [torrented bundle](https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/3dg4p9/roguelike_mega_collection_2015_over_700_free/) of many many roguelikes
* The [ArchiveRL](https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z) project, building a complete archive of roguelikes
* [Roguebase](http://www.roguebase.net/), an RL blog aggregator
* [Roguelike Radio](http://roguelikeradio.com/) podcast for all things roguelike-y
**Roguelike(ish)-Specific Subreddits:**
* [*Roguelike Development*](http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev)
* [*Roguelites*](http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelites)
* [Binding of Isaac](http://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac)
* [Caves](https://www.reddit.com/r/cavesrl/)
* [Crypt of the Necrodancer](http://www.reddit.com/r/necrodancer)
* [Darkest Dungeon](http://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon)
* [Dwarf Fortress](http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress)
* [Elona](https://www.reddit.com/r/Elona/)
* [FTL](http://reddit.com/r/ftlgame)
* [KeeperRL](https://www.reddit.com/r/keeperrl)
* [NEO Scavenger](https://www.reddit.com/r/neoscavenger)
* [Pathos](http://www.reddit.com/r/pathos_nethack/)
* [Spelunky](http://www.reddit.com/r/spelunky)
* [TomeNET](https://www.reddit.com/r/TomeNET/)
* [Warsim: The Realm of Aslona](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarsimRpg/)
* [Wayward](http://www.reddit.com/r/wayward)
* [Streets of Rogue](http://www.reddit.com//r/streetsofrogue)
**Chat:**
* #rgrd on irc.quakenet.org
* #roguelikes on irc.synirc.com
* [/r/roguelikes Discord](https://discord.gg/t9cVHhj)
Woah that looks like a great list. Thanks! I've played Dwarf, ADOM, DoomRL, all great, Nethack meh. So your list gives me a bunch more to look into.