Summer Adventure Design Contest - "The Doodle Contest"

[DangerousPuhson]

JUDGEMENT DAY HAS ARRIVED.

Two entries thus far... anyone still looking to squeak in their entry, please do so before 6:00PM EST.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Judgments forthcoming

 

[DangerousPuhson]

ENTRY #1: CALLAID DRAOID HEACHD - by gandalf_scion (John Gorkowski)

Easily navigable two-column format with maps as the annex. Premise is simple enough though hooks are underdeveloped (not much in the way of player enticement to visit the garden/tunnels). The adventure is divided into two parts - the garden, and the tunnels under the garden.

The Garden
The garden has a simple design, and while expecting a hedge maze, there's very little in the way of maze-like characteristics - it would be impossible to get lost in the garden as it has a pretty linear design. The leprechauns have some nice crafty tricks like all good fey should, but it would have been better to have a bit more interaction with them beyond constant attempts to steal from you. The dryad is pretty boring; she either drives you away, or largely ignores you. She defends the tree if it is attacked, but what kind of group is just going to randomly attack a tree? The tree is full of treasure, it would have been better if it noted that she also stops players from taking the leprechaun's treasure (if this is meant to be the case, then its not clear enough). The treasure is kinda boring, with the single interesting piece being an alchemy jug. The only other encounters are a boar (not especially exciting for an enchanted garden), and a single giant beetle (again, not especially imaginative). The gate to the lower caverns area is decent in its description, but it's also got a "pass this check or don't continue on the adventure" check, so it's not the best design. The rest of the maze is well done from an aesthetic perspective - the atmosphere feels somewhat fey in nature, and the non-combat situations have a decent bit of oddity to them (but could stand to be weirder/cooler).

The Tunnels
With the way this was described in the intro and the build-up to it from the whole concept of the gardens, I was expecting these caverns to be really alien and sinister - this was unfortunately not the case. Firstly, the choice of grimlocks as the main enemy is not one I'd say is especially creative. Grimlocks are only slightly better than goblins in terms of creative enemy choices. It's not clear if the seal closing the place means its just guarding against a few grimlocks - if so, that's hardly the type of sinister threat worth devoting one's entire life to warding against. The grimlock boss is not alluded to or special in any particular way, so there's a lack of a cool boss fight here too. Secondly, the rest of the encounters are a bit blasé - spider, lizard, beetles, piercer. Very generic roster that's been done a million times over. The environment is equally generic, with cave crickets and lichen. There's a pond there with literally nothing special about it - things are just... "there". The treasure is likewise dull and not remarkable - gemstones and coins. This part of the adventure promised exciting mysterious weirdness and delivered only a typical (and bland) cave foray.

The Doodles: There was one used, and it related in no way to the adventure. None of the rest of the adventure was seemingly inspired by any of them either. Apparently the theme of the contest was immediately abandoned.

Final Verdict: The bones of the adventure are there structurally, but none of the otherworldliness, enchantment or mystery that was hinted at is present, which is a shame. There's weak incentive to get the party inside or exploring any of it. The enemies are boring and the situations (with the exception of a couple leprechaun tricks) are dull. Treasure was very boring; too many coins and gems, not enough anything else. There were a couple spelling errors, but everything was legible so they weren't especially impactful. I am disappointed that none of the doodles were integrated. The module is technically functional, but there's no appeal to run it.

Final Score: 3 out of 10.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

ENTRY #2: WEARERS OF FLESH - by shib71 (Blair McKenzie)

Two-column layout with a professional-looking polish, as well as a robust annex section containing stat blocks, magic items, maps, and handouts. Included are pre-generated characters. Contains a good amount of DM tips for running the adventure. Hooks are decent enough, but could be a touch more compelling. The adventure is divided into two parts: a rabbit-man village, and a laboratory dungeon.

The Village
Could have benefited from some sort of map showing where things are in relation to one another. Not game-breaking, but makes grasping a sense of scale for the place difficult. There's a decent bit of intrigue with regards to some suspicious activity; in particular, I especially like the incursion of the ossumites at Lochlainn Farm - role-playing these skin-wearing impostors seems like it would be fun. The Butcher mystery could use a bit of fleshing out (pun intended) to at least offer some kind of benefit for uncovering the scheme. NPCs are detailed enough to be usable, but could stand to have some extra attention paid to their motives and relationship to the party. I dig the symbiotic use of the bone beetles and how the town has come to wrap their faces to speak in public. Having three different entrances to the dungeon is smart, and handled really well, but there could be more of an allusion to the presence/importance of the dungeon demonstrated in the village.

The Laboratory
Good choice of a Dyson map that nicely combines natural caves with artificial rooms, and I appreciate the effort of adding a side view map (though it could use some numbering). I like the choice to disconnect the entrances from the dungeon proper and put them in their own section - it makes running the thing much easier. I can also appreciate that each entrance presents it's own set of problems, adding good variety to the adventure. Finn's map handout is a nice touch and a believable way for the party to get a hint or two about what lies ahead. The read-aloud text could stand to be a little more descriptive in some rooms. NPCs encountered are pretty great, especially Bob. Could stand to include more enemies/encounters though. As it stands there's not a whole lot to fight, especially if the group befriends most of the ossumites. I love the mechanic for transferring a spirit from the Embodiment pool. Most of the "traps" are good and make sense in the context of the dungeon. The whole place has a good "lived in" vibe to it. I have to give an especially big shout-out for the use of colors to depict elements on the in-line maps/room keys - very clever and helpful. Treasure is decent, not the best I've seen, but I really like the ones in Area RL10. My one big complaint is that the whole place feels a little aimless; if the party isn't looking specifically for Finn, then I don't know what motivation they'd have to wander around the place beyond simple curiosity.

The Doodles: Props for using almost all of them, especially because it's clear you used them to inspire/supplement big parts of the adventure. You have certainly embraced the spirit of the competition.

Final Verdict: A very good effort, especially considering you were marginally pigeonholed into adding certain elements due to a use of the doodles. The handouts and pre-generated characters and in-line maps show that you went above and beyond in developing a proper finished product. Treasure could be a bit more robust in some sections, as could the read-aloud text, and it would benefit from some kind of proper village layout. Otherwise, I can find very little to complain about. This was overall a very well-made entry.

Final Score: 9 out of 10.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Congrats to shib71 for winning this season's contest, and props to gandalf_scion for giving it a shot with his first (but hopefully not last) entry!

 

[gandalf_scion]

Congrats to shib71 for winning this season's contest, and props to gandalf_scion for giving it a shot with his first (but hopefully not last) entry!

ENTRY #1: CALLAID DRAOID HEACHD - by gandalf_scion (John Gorkowski)

Easily navigable two-column format with maps as the annex. Premise is simple enough though hooks are underdeveloped (not much in the way of player enticement to visit the garden/tunnels). The adventure is divided into two parts - the garden, and the tunnels under the garden.

The Garden
The garden has a simple design, and while expecting a hedge maze, there's very little in the way of maze-like characteristics - it would be impossible to get lost in the garden as it has a pretty linear design. The leprechauns have some nice crafty tricks like all good fey should, but it would have been better to have a bit more interaction with them beyond constant attempts to steal from you. The dryad is pretty boring; she either drives you away, or largely ignores you. She defends the tree if it is attacked, but what kind of group is just going to randomly attack a tree? The tree is full of treasure, it would have been better if it noted that she also stops players from taking the leprechaun's treasure (if this is meant to be the case, then its not clear enough). The treasure is kinda boring, with the single interesting piece being an alchemy jug. The only other encounters are a boar (not especially exciting for an enchanted garden), and a single giant beetle (again, not especially imaginative). The gate to the lower caverns area is decent in its description, but it's also got a "pass this check or don't continue on the adventure" check, so it's not the best design. The rest of the maze is well done from an aesthetic perspective - the atmosphere feels somewhat fey in nature, and the non-combat situations have a decent bit of oddity to them (but could stand to be weirder/cooler).

The Tunnels
With the way this was described in the intro and the build-up to it from the whole concept of the gardens, I was expecting these caverns to be really alien and sinister - this was unfortunately not the case. Firstly, the choice of grimlocks as the main enemy is not one I'd say is especially creative. Grimlocks are only slightly better than goblins in terms of creative enemy choices. It's not clear if the seal closing the place means its just guarding against a few grimlocks - if so, that's hardly the type of sinister threat worth devoting one's entire life to warding against. The grimlock boss is not alluded to or special in any particular way, so there's a lack of a cool boss fight here too. Secondly, the rest of the encounters are a bit blasé - spider, lizard, beetles, piercer. Very generic roster that's been done a million times over. The environment is equally generic, with cave crickets and lichen. There's a pond there with literally nothing special about it - things are just... "there". The treasure is likewise dull and not remarkable - gemstones and coins. This part of the adventure promised exciting mysterious weirdness and delivered only a typical (and bland) cave foray.

The Doodles: There was one used, and it related in no way to the adventure. None of the rest of the adventure was seemingly inspired by any of them either. Apparently the theme of the contest was immediately abandoned.

Final Verdict: The bones of the adventure are there structurally, but none of the otherworldliness, enchantment or mystery that was hinted at is present, which is a shame. There's weak incentive to get the party inside or exploring any of it. The enemies are boring and the situations (with the exception of a couple leprechaun tricks) are dull. Treasure was very boring; too many coins and gems, not enough anything else. There were a couple spelling errors, but everything was legible so they weren't especially impactful. I am disappointed that none of the doodles were integrated. The module is technically functional, but there's no appeal to run it.

Final Score: 3 out of 10.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback and it's good fodder for discussion (not argument).

On the doodles, I used a doodle of a tree house. In the adventure the leprechauns live in a tree house, just above the dryad, where we find most of the treasure; so it seems related to the adventure? And, isn't fey in a tree house "otherworldliness?" Not to the veteran player, I get it. But for those with less play experience, probably. This leads to my primary question.

Should we start thinking of adventures/contests in terms of conventional and unconventional without presuming one is necessarily better than the other? I see how people who play, or have played, frequently would find standard monsters boring. But, for those with less play history the standard monsters are still "fantastic." For example, I have never faced grimlocks. With grimlocks then the "creativity" stems from how the designer incorporates their blindness into the adventure; something the reviewer completely overlooked? Pardon the pun. And there's another pun in the adventure that I can't help but wonder may have been deemed a "spelling mistake." The title of one encounter is "making an ash out of you" which alludes to one's posterior while also referencing Ash and Yew trees, both used to make longbow, which is at the heart of a leprechaun trick in that encounter. I feel like that short guy in Princess Bride.

"There's a pond there with literally nothing special about it - things are just... 'there'." Does everything have to be magical and spectacular? Is it OK to give the dungeon denizens a water source as a nod to ecology? I would argue this is a plus that enhances veracity. In the original DMG, Gary asked that we think about these things. When speaking of monsters he said, "Where do they get food and water?" If I had omitted the pond, a critic might ask, "Why aren't all these grimlocks dead from dehydration?" Anyway, please pardon the mere (and brief) appearance of reality.

None of this is meant to argue for re-adjudication of the contest, but rather to pose the question, "Is there a bias here that presumes the conventional is automatically boring?" I strive to use standard monsters rather than cook up my own because how one deploys the "standards" is a measure of creativity. Constantly creating new monsters, on the other hand, could be seen as "an easy way out," that reduces the shared experience of playing the same game across different groups. Something similar goes for treasure. One of my unusual treasures is a "rose wood box with mini silver place settings." Perhaps the concurrent appearance of emeralds and gold (with leprechauns) makes that rose wood box special, or maybe not?

Anyway, in "real life" tabloids constantly mock the missionary position, but after all these centuries couples still like it. It's "boring" for people who have had too much. Does the same apply to role playing?

Look forward to the next contest.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I think you deserve to have this unpacked for you, since you made the effort to compete. So I will oblige.

First, the doodles. The idea of the contest was to make best use of the doodles to build your adventure. A single doodle on the cover, I would not call "making best use" of them. True you used one with a tree and then also had a tree element in your adventure, but you clearly stated in the room keys that the leprechaun's tree house was concealed with an illusion so as to be indistinguishable from normal foliage - so the doodle you did use wasn't even the same as what anyone playing the adventure is going to see. I'd consider that basically an abandonment of the doodles, with a single one kinda half-heartedly chosen because it had a small element in common with something already in the adventure (which incidentally, I suspect you had already written up when the contest was announced, but I won't go so far as to accuse you of anything shifty; it's fine to save yourself some work, but perhaps a final pass to better incorporate the doodles was in order, yes?)

BTW before delving into the second point, I want to point out that I did get your "making an ash out of you" pun; that's not the spelling error I was referring to. There's a couple of misspelled or misused words I came across; just as an easy example, on Page 1, first paragraph of "Garden Map General Notes", you mentioned that the garden is a pentagon when you meant to say pentagram. But again, I never hold errors like that against an author (unless I'm paying for the product).

To the second point, re. conventional adventures vs. unconventional adventures. I'm going to go out on a limb here and make another guess by saying you haven't read through much of Bryce's reviews on 10footpole, yes? If so, you'd see where I'm coming from right away. Bryce is (in)famous for not cutting any slack to generic stuff. Read through his "The Worst EVAR?" category reviews if you want a quick crash course on what I mean. I know I was judging this contest, but we are all on Bryce's forum, and so we are all somewhat adherent to the tenants of good adventure design he touts. If it were Bryce judging this, he would have likely been far less kind about things than I was. But that's not your contention; we aren't here to discuss what Bryce would think about this. We are discussing why I came to the conclusions I did.

Genericism has its place, but its place is not in a showcase contest to display creative writing prowess. That's the fundamental issue most people have when they buy a module only to discover that it's a common/generic adventure - they think "this is something I could have made on my own in five minutes. Why did I pay money for this?" Yes, conventional adventures can still be fun for people who have never played much of the game and so haven't already burned through all the tropes and seen all the clichés. But you are on a forum for people who literally write adventures, in many cases professionally. We've seen it all here. Conventional just isn't going to impress anyone anymore. Any other judge I could haul in here would say the same.

Regarding your issue with the pond - nobody likes reasonable ecological plausibility more than I do. I never put something in a dungeon without giving thought to how it could possibly live there. I get the purpose of the pond; my gripe is not so much that it's there as a tool to support life, but rather in the sense that it was a missed opportunity to spice up an otherwise bland locale. I say this objectively - there is nothing wonderous about the tunnels under the garden. The writing had led us to believe that the laird was protecting the world from some great power by sealing away the tunnels under the garden with mystical energies, but absolutely none of the came through in your adventure design. The pool was a chance to redeem the expectations of that vibe (a fountain of youth? the deadliest curse? some sort of avatar for a water goddess?), but it was like everything else down there, nothing special. You mentioned "a portal to the underworld" down there - why not make the pond a literal portal? So to reiterate the point, my disappointment is not the existence of the pool, but rather the waste of potential for something neat. This was the general theme of things - the cave crickets and tube lichen likewise sound tantalizing, but in the end they are just mundane, and the players can't really do anything with them. If the crickets were carnivorous swarmers and the lichen tubes were somehow incorporated into a combat encounter, then you'd have caught some attention!

Finally, to your argument that there is a place for conventional. I'd agree... just not in a contest being judged on a forum of professional creative writers. If you entered a World's Biggest Pumpkin contest with a normal pumpkin, yes you could argue that normal pumpkins still serve a purpose in this world, but you're missing the point of the contest. Maybe I'm partly to blame for not stipulating that we are looking for entries that will "wow" us all, but I'd honestly felt it goes without saying. You can't wow people with conventional. To your point about the missionary position: Missionary is great, but if we were having a sex contest, you'd want to be busting out some backwards flying lotus position, not missionary.

Hope that clears up your issues. I can sense you have the potential for something much more fantastical if you oriented yourself towards it, you just didn't do it in this case. I'd encourage you to enter the next contest so you can show us what you've got when you're aligned for contest writing.

 

[squeen]

I couldn't get past 'laird'...kept thinking 'laird butt'.

 

[gandalf_scion]

I think you deserve to have this unpacked for you, since you made the effort to compete. So I will oblige.

First, the doodles. The idea of the contest was to make best use of the doodles to build your adventure. A single doodle on the cover, I would not call "making best use" of them. True you used one with a tree and then also had a tree element in your adventure, but you clearly stated in the room keys that the leprechaun's tree house was concealed with an illusion so as to be indistinguishable from normal foliage - so the doodle you did use wasn't even the same as what anyone playing the adventure is going to see. I'd consider that basically an abandonment of the doodles, with a single one kinda half-heartedly chosen because it had a small element in common with something already in the adventure (which incidentally, I suspect you had already written up when the contest was announced, but I won't go so far as to accuse you of anything shifty; it's fine to save yourself some work, but perhaps a final pass to better incorporate the doodles was in order, yes?)

BTW before delving into the second point, I want to point out that I did get your "making an ash out of you" pun; that's not the spelling error I was referring to. There's a couple of misspelled or misused words I came across; just as an easy example, on Page 1, first paragraph of "Garden Map General Notes", you mentioned that the garden is a pentagon when you meant to say pentagram. But again, I never hold errors like that against an author (unless I'm paying for the product).

To the second point, re. conventional adventures vs. unconventional adventures. I'm going to go out on a limb here and make another guess by saying you haven't read through much of Bryce's reviews on 10footpole, yes? If so, you'd see where I'm coming from right away. Bryce is (in)famous for not cutting any slack to generic stuff. Read through his "The Worst EVAR?" category reviews if you want a quick crash course on what I mean. I know I was judging this contest, but we are all on Bryce's forum, and so we are all somewhat adherent to the tenants of good adventure design he touts. If it were Bryce judging this, he would have likely been far less kind about things than I was. But that's not your contention; we aren't here to discuss what Bryce would think about this. We are discussing why I came to the conclusions I did.

Genericism has its place, but its place is not in a showcase contest to display creative writing prowess. That's the fundamental issue most people have when they buy a module only to discover that it's a common/generic adventure - they think "this is something I could have made on my own in five minutes. Why did I pay money for this?" Yes, conventional adventures can still be fun for people who have never played much of the game and so haven't already burned through all the tropes and seen all the clichés. But you are on a forum for people who literally write adventures, in many cases professionally. We've seen it all here. Conventional just isn't going to impress anyone anymore. Any other judge I could haul in here would say the same.

Regarding your issue with the pond - nobody likes reasonable ecological plausibility more than I do. I never put something in a dungeon without giving thought to how it could possibly live there. I get the purpose of the pond; my gripe is not so much that it's there as a tool to support life, but rather in the sense that it was a missed opportunity to spice up an otherwise bland locale. I say this objectively - there is nothing wonderous about the tunnels under the garden. The writing had led us to believe that the laird was protecting the world from some great power by sealing away the tunnels under the garden with mystical energies, but absolutely none of the came through in your adventure design. The pool was a chance to redeem the expectations of that vibe (a fountain of youth? the deadliest curse? some sort of avatar for a water goddess?), but it was like everything else down there, nothing special. You mentioned "a portal to the underworld" down there - why not make the pond a literal portal? So to reiterate the point, my disappointment is not the existence of the pool, but rather the waste of potential for something neat. This was the general theme of things - the cave crickets and tube lichen likewise sound tantalizing, but in the end they are just mundane, and the players can't really do anything with them. If the crickets were carnivorous swarmers and the lichen tubes were somehow incorporated into a combat encounter, then you'd have caught some attention!

Finally, to your argument that there is a place for conventional. I'd agree... just not in a contest being judged on a forum of professional creative writers. If you entered a World's Biggest Pumpkin contest with a normal pumpkin, yes you could argue that normal pumpkins still serve a purpose in this world, but you're missing the point of the contest. Maybe I'm partly to blame for not stipulating that we are looking for entries that will "wow" us all, but I'd honestly felt it goes without saying. You can't wow people with conventional. To your point about the missionary position: Missionary is great, but if we were having a sex contest, you'd want to be busting out some backwards flying lotus position, not missionary.

Hope that clears up your issues. I can sense you have the potential for something much more fantastical if you oriented yourself towards it, you just didn't do it in this case. I'd encourage you to enter the next contest so you can show us what you've got when you're aligned for contest writing.

To the contrary, I've read many of Bryce's reviews. In fact, I was referred to this site after a discussion with an editor at Ensider because I raised a number of points about concise writing, better organization, and good presentation, that reminded him of Bryce. I was surprised these themes - critical to this site - got such short shrift in your review. As you can tell, I'm not a devotee of the cult of "it must be new." It's no offense to me if Bryce would bring down the hammer because I recycled some old monsters.

I'm merely pointing out that condemning content up front because "it's been done before" is in itself linear thinking that forecloses options for creativity. Old stuff done with a better presentation, different accent, or new spin is quite ok. It may not win a given contest, but it should not be dismissed out of hand. Are we never to use monsters from the 1e monster manual, any of them? Would you tell a musician not to make any more guitar music because its been done before?

Anyway, given that you missed how the tree house was in fact related to the adventure as well as how the pond balanced the ecology, it's reasonable for readers to question your assumptions and conclusions. Here's another one. "I suspect you had already written up when the contest was announced." Wrong again. But, I'll be sure to include more pictures next time.

Also, I do hope nobody takes offense to this exchange of ideas. That's why I'm here. I like this exchange of ideas about writing adventures. Here's another idea worth exploring. "The gate to the lower caverns area is decent in its description, but it's also got a "pass this check or don't continue on the adventure" check, so it's not the best design." While I am not a fan of pass-check-to-continue, this example illustrates when we might get away with it. A knock spell could open the gate with no check. Other options include picking the lock or bending the bars which can be improved through prudent use of a crowbar. The point is that this "obstacle encounter" is consequential. Indeed, many combat encounters amount to "pass-check-to-continue."

 

[gandalf_scion]

I couldn't get past 'laird'...kept thinking 'laird butt'.

Fair enough, but what you should have been thinking was C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness.

 

[squeen]

Dang! I'm never thinking what I should be!
(Stupid brain!)


I did enjoy reading the adventure. Thanks.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

To the contrary, I've read many of Bryce's reviews. In fact, I was referred to this site after a discussion with an editor at Ensider because I raised a number of points about concise writing, better organization, and good presentation, that reminded him of Bryce. I was surprised these themes - critical to this site - got such short shrift in your review. As you can tell, I'm not a devotee of the cult of "it must be new." It's no offense to me if Bryce would bring down the hammer because I recycled some old monsters.

I'm merely pointing out that condemning content up front because "it's been done before" is in itself linear thinking that forecloses options for creativity. Old stuff done with a better presentation, different accent, or new spin is quite ok. It may not win a given contest, but it should not be dismissed out of hand. Are we never to use monsters from the 1e monster manual, any of them? Would you tell a musician not to make any more guitar music because its been done before?

Anyway, given that you missed how the tree house was in fact related to the adventure as well as how the pond balanced the ecology, it's reasonable for readers to question your assumptions and conclusions. Here's another one. "I suspect you had already written up when the contest was announced." Wrong again. But, I'll be sure to include more pictures next time.

Also, I do hope nobody takes offense to this exchange of ideas. That's why I'm here. I like this exchange of ideas about writing adventures. Here's another idea worth exploring. "The gate to the lower caverns area is decent in its description, but it's also got a "pass this check or don't continue on the adventure" check, so it's not the best design." While I am not a fan of pass-check-to-continue, this example illustrates when we might get away with it. A knock spell could open the gate with no check. Other options include picking the lock or bending the bars which can be improved through prudent use of a crowbar. The point is that this "obstacle encounter" is consequential. Indeed, many combat encounters amount to "pass-check-to-continue."

I don't think you quite grasp my reservations about your adventure. The content is irrelevant - the mundane features, the generic monsters, the lack of interesting magic items - this stuff is all forgivable, and isn't what colored my opinion of your work.

My problem is that it all combines into a mish-mash of mediocrity. Like you say "Old stuff done with a better presentation, different accent, or new spin is quite ok", and I can agree... The problem is I'm not seeing any "better presentation, different accent, or new spin" in your work. I'm seeing the same old spin I've seen since the '80s. Grimlocks aren't inherently boring, but YOUR grimlocks ARE boring, because they don't do anything that isn't boring. Can you see what I'm getting at here?

It's the same problem I have with the pond and the treehouse and frankly most everything else. It's stuff that's just there; it just exists. Existence is not evocative. Existence does not make for memorable games. Existence does not score big marks in creative competition. So when I say it's not the content but the execution that's sunk your entry, this is what I mean. You had the pieces in play but weren't making any moves. This can be forgiven if the pieces are really cool and interesting in themselves somehow, but yours weren't; they were generic. The combination of dull pieces in dull situations is the problem with what you've done here. If you could fix one or the other, it would have scored decently, but it didn't.

So when I say I'm not approaching this from a place of being biased against commonality and default monsters and such, know that I mean it. You've taken these things and not done anything special with them - THAT'S where you've lost points, and no amount of bias or unbias is going to change that fact.

 

[gandalf_scion]

I don't think you quite grasp my reservations about your adventure. The content is irrelevant - the mundane features, the generic monsters, the lack of interesting magic items - this stuff is all forgivable, and isn't what colored my opinion of your work.

My problem is that it all combines into a mish-mash of mediocrity. Like you say "Old stuff done with a better presentation, different accent, or new spin is quite ok", and I can agree... The problem is I'm not seeing any "better presentation, different accent, or new spin" in your work. I'm seeing the same old spin I've seen since the '80s. Grimlocks aren't inherently boring, but YOUR grimlocks ARE boring, because they don't do anything that isn't boring. Can you see what I'm getting at here?

It's the same problem I have with the pond and the treehouse and frankly most everything else. It's stuff that's just there; it just exists. Existence is not evocative. Existence does not make for memorable games. Existence does not score big marks in creative competition. So when I say it's not the content but the execution that's sunk your entry, this is what I mean. You had the pieces in play but weren't making any moves. This can be forgiven if the pieces are really cool and interesting in themselves somehow, but yours weren't; they were generic. The combination of dull pieces in dull situations is the problem with what you've done here. If you could fix one or the other, it would have scored decently, but it didn't.

So when I say I'm not approaching this from a place of being biased against commonality and default monsters and such, know that I mean it. You've taken these things and not done anything special with them - THAT'S where you've lost points, and no amount of bias or unbias is going to change that fact.

Why didn't you say that three posts ago? For a "writer" you are exhibiting some non-trivial communication issues. Not long ago a prime driver was the number of pics displayed. It might not be my grasp that's off.

Another example, "I want to point out that I did get your "making an ash out of you" pun; that's not the spelling error I was referring to. There's a couple of misspelled or misused words I came across; just as an easy example, on Page 1, first paragraph of "Garden Map General Notes", you mentioned that the garden is a pentagon when you meant to say pentagram." No, I meant to say pentagon, here's the sentence in question, "If a character gains elevation by climbing a tree then he/she will see the star and pentagon inside the outer circle." All of those things together make a pentagram, but the use of pentagon in describing the components was no error. Reading comprehension?

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Why didn't you say that three posts ago? For a "writer" you are exhibiting some non-trivial communication issues. Not long ago a prime driver was the number of pics displayed. It might not be my grasp that's off.

Another example, "I want to point out that I did get your "making an ash out of you" pun; that's not the spelling error I was referring to. There's a couple of misspelled or misused words I came across; just as an easy example, on Page 1, first paragraph of "Garden Map General Notes", you mentioned that the garden is a pentagon when you meant to say pentagram." No, I meant to say pentagon, here's the sentence in question, "If a character gains elevation by climbing a tree then he/she will see the star and pentagon inside the outer circle." All of those things together make a pentagram, but the use of pentagon in describing the components was no error. Reading comprehension?

Ok well now you're just getting hostile/defensive.

There are many prime drivers, including a lack of doodle inclusion; I was explaining in particular the one you latched onto the most, which was my problem with your lack of evocative elements and boring things. My previous criticisms still stand; I was simply addressing the issue you were bringing up.

Second, you say pentagon and defend your use of the word "pentagon" - I counter by saying there is no pentagon anywhere in your map design. It's a star inside a circle - literally a pentagram. So you can forgive my thinking you meant to say "a pentagram" (which you have in your map) instead of "a pentagon" (a shape which is not in your map).

For an "exchange of ideas" you certainly took this to a very personal place. My criticisms stand; you can either accept the feedback and use it, or you can consider my critique invalid and continue doing what you're doing, but I won't sit here and let you tell me I lack reading comprehension and have "non-trivial communication issues".

 

[shib71]

Thanks for the feedback @DangerousPuhson. I especially appreciate the notes about what was lacking - it highlighted things I need to pay more attention to when I write an adventure to share with others. At some point I'll come revisit the adventure and try and improve those parts.

I want to call out to the Ultimate User-Friendliness thread again. Putting map fragments on each page (with colour coding and exit notes), adding lots of cross-reference indexes, making the item appendix easy to print and cut up - those were all ideas from that conversation.

 

[shib71]

Regarding the conversation about the critique of @gandalf_scion's adventure:

Reading Bryce's reviews helped me realise (consciously) that it was reasonable to expect a lot from adventure modules. That even WotC's published adventures could be "bad". Aside from the most explicit shortcomings Bryce criticises (like style issues), the theme that has stood out for me is what I think of as lack of ambition from the writer.

An adventure is an opportunity for a wild, crazy ride, so why include any boring parts? "Ordinary" should only be in there as contrast against the crazy. Every NPC should have personality and a goal. Monsters should have interesting tactics, their own objective, play into the history of the adventure, or pose more of an interesting combat challenge than "hit it until one side is dead" - ideally they would do ALL of those at simultaneously. Why add magic items from the DMG, when you can make a custom one that builds up the story?

The problem with "generic" is that it can lull you into stringing monsters together and calling it an adventure. Just encountering grimlocks might be new and fun - but with a little more work they can be new and fun, have traps ready to ambush the party, be the minions of the villainess trying to escape her control, and have useful information if your players think to bribe them.

 

[gandalf_scion]

"The problem with "generic" is that it can lull you into stringing monsters together and calling it an adventure. Just encountering grimlocks might be new and fun - but with a little more work they can be new and fun, have traps ready to ambush the party, be the minions of the villainess trying to escape her control, and have useful information if your players think to bribe them. "

YES, totally agree. That's why we have an internally consistent ecology with recently arrived grimlocks (hence the lack of prepared defenses/traps, a deliberate attempt at balance for low-level characters) near a water source constructing a ladder to reach the surface along with various clues to their past transit, and something further in the future, such as this ....

20. Cliff/Chasm

In the foreground, a stone obelisk juts up about three feet from the ground very near the north edge of this chamber. Beyond that, the floor falls away to a five-foot wide chasm or fissure that runs the full length of the room. The other side of the chasm is the north wall of this chamber, no ledges or passages, just rock face.

The north side of the obelisk, facing the chasm rim, shows runes. Comprehend languages will reveal them to say, “This way to the surface.” In other words, they are directions for those coming up from the chasm. Note, there is no northward passage per se, just that “bottomless” chasm which players might descend later in a follow-on adventure.

Searchers will find evidence of foot and hand traffic since the grimlock came up from the chasm and passed through here on their way to areas 9-15.

-------------------------------------------------------------

"It was reasonable to expect a lot from adventure modules. That even WotC's published adventures could be "bad". "

Again, TOTALLY AGREE.

The problem here is "group think" that declares, "Firstly, the choice of grimlocks as the main enemy is not one I'd say is especially creative. Grimlocks are only slightly better than goblins in terms of creative enemy choices" without even noticing the substance behind this choice. Recall how the ecological role of the pond was totally missed.

Ironically, the problem with non-generic is that it can lull you into stringing monsters together and calling it an adventure. With "non-generic" the "something shiny and new" syndrome takes over.

In all cases, it's the substance of the story that matters. None of what's been "revealed" here is news. And, I'm not arguing that my entry hit all the points. Nor am I criticizing any other entry. What is self evident, however, is that when you begin like this...

"Firstly, the choice of grimlocks as the main enemy is not one I'd say is especially creative. Grimlocks are only slightly better than goblins in terms of creative enemy choices"

...And then later declare the choice of creatures irrelevant while missing things like use of the tree house image you reveal a lack of critical thinking about the substance of the item at hand. Of course, the critic will now come back and say some version of "it sucks," but there have already been so many internal contradictions and inconsistencies in his past discourse that his commentary is no longer credible.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Of course, the critic will now come back and say some version of "it sucks," but there have already been so many internal contradictions and inconsistencies in his past discourse that his commentary is no longer credible.

Wow, you really are not getting it, are you? I thought my comments/feedback about your submission was was crystal clear, but I guess not.

Are you still somehow confused as to the problems I've outlined with your submission? Is there some point of view I hold that you're not understanding, because I can begrudgingly elaborate any any point I've already covered - that is, if you're willing to open your ears to criticism instead of lashing out defensively and attacking me as a person...