Muster: a friendly primer to old school D&D

Johann

*eyeroll*
Eero Tuovinen is setting set out to write Muster: a friendly primer to old school D&D at IndieGoGo. This is a project very much in the vein of Matthew Finch's Quick Primer for Old School Gaming and Jason Cone’s Philotomy’s Musings.

Eero’s been blogging and writing about the philosophical underpinnings of wargamey D&D and how to run and play in a sandbox campaign (something you lot know a ton about, too). He’s been a major influence on my gaming, along with Ben Robbins’ West Marches campaign and Bryce's reviews (which provide the fodder to stock my sandbox - I discovered Guy Fullerton's and Melan's work here, among other things). But enough with all the OSR links – go check out Eero’s crowdfunding pitch for yourself!

Best wishes,

Johann
--
P.S.: I’m not affiliated with Eero in any way, but merely an enthusiastic backer (cf. my promotion of his yet-to-be-written essay The Sacrament of Death on this forum, too).
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
I was going to say "we don't need another one of these" but Eero's thoughts on the OSR are always fresh and inspiring. He's influenced my own game a lot.
 

Johann

*eyeroll*
One of the things I like is that it's system-agnostic:

a book that could teach old school D&D to newcomers (with prior rpg experience or not) in a way independent from a specific product line. Something I could give to a new player to look over at home, and perhaps be inspired to try. A book about what's great and desirable about the game, and how to draw that out, rather than a book of equipment prices and spell lists.
After all, we've already got plenty of rules to choose from (from B/X or AD&D to DCC or LotFP etc.) and creating a homebrew is also common (an approach I expect he'll discuss as he advocates a precedent-based approach, if I am not mistaken).
 

Johann

*eyeroll*
Eero has provided a major update to the project today! It links to his blog, where he covers Muster’s substance in broad strokes and the manuscript outline, among many other things.

This is shaping up to be a thorough treatment and the “playing well” section alone will be well worth it, though “decision-making filtering with dice” and “controlling complexity, maintaining data” are also favorites of mine: Eero’s got a knack for simple, yet powerful procedures (e.g. intuitively creating and easily maintaining encounter tables via nested tables etc., as I well remember from Story-Games).

Funding is at 75% but has slowed down, so listen to the commando skirkmish operator I know you have in you and ambush the crowdfunding perk of your choice. Victory may depend on you!
 

Johann

*eyeroll*
I'm happy to report that Muster: a friendly primer to old school D&D has been funded! This is great news, not least because the resulting primer will be made freely available on the net (via Creative Commons, most likely), so everyone can discuss and use it! I'll let you know when it's out.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Johann
--
P.S.: Of course, it is still possible to contribute, whether to get a printed version or one of the various perks, or simply for the warm fuzzy feeling from giving back to the hobby. Personally, I expect the primer to be discussed and used years from now.
 

Guennarr

A FreshHell to Contend With
Any news on when it will be finished? i browsed his website, yet there wasn’t much information on how things progress.
Thanks in advance!
 

TerribleSorcery

Should be playing D&D instead
Since nobody else will, I must ask: who is Eero Tuovinen? He's kickstarted a 150-page (?!?!) primer for old-school gaming, but I've never heard of this guy. He seems to have been blogging since '07, which is pretty good. Has he released any modules? Is he on Dragonsfoot? Any good play reports? Can anybody vouch? Why should I take my cues from this dude?
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
He's run a bunch of D&D campaigns with old school sensibilities and written a lot of theory (and practice) about it on story-games.com (dead, probably archived somewhere). He also did his damnedest to make D&D 4th edition work as written by running an explicitly rail roaded campaign set in an alternate Prydain. The only D&D module I know he wrote is the exquisitely named Miscegenation of the Ancients which is a dungeon crawl set in Noah's Ark.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
He also did his damnedest to make D&D 4th edition work as written by running an explicitly rail roaded campaign set in an alternate Prydain.
That's the wrong approach to making 4e work, IMO. AFAIK it is the only edition with express systems for improvising mechanics on the fly; it is a colossal waste of that flexibility to build a railroad.
 

Johann

*eyeroll*
Eero Tuovinen has finally finished writing Muster - A Primer for War. Advice for playing D&D the wargaming way!

It is available for free at DriveThruRPG.

(It's technically pay-what-you-want so you can tip him, but he's made it clear at DriveThruRPG and elsewhere that it's free and free to share.)

It's taken longer than anticipated, but it's also grown from it's early estimated length of 50 pages to 250+ pages! Fortunately, (1) there's a brief manifesto at the beginning and (2) it's been split into a basic and advanced section.

I think it's a stellar piece of work, providing both practical advice for newcomers to this style of play and theoretical observations and surprises for its veterans as well as RPG aficionados in general.

Among other things, Eero offers a mature take on Chauvinism and D&D and penetrating observations about 'The Nihilistic Void' encroaching on long-term campaigns conducted in the wargaming way --- but judge for yourself!
 
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Hemlock

Should be playing D&D instead
First impressions:

I'm not much of an art guy normally but the art immediately grabbed me. I may wind up printing this one out.

I'm also impressed by the clarity of the layout/organization and by the fact that he immediately contextualizes it with Kriegspiel and open-ended conflict simulation. I can totally imagine myself printing out the Manifesto section to routinely hand to new players to inform them what my game is about, which of the 8 types of fun I intend to serve.

I think I like this guy's style.

Edit: I'm getting new ideas for my game already, just from pondering the manifesto. What if I made my Dungeon Fantasy dungeons (hexcrawls) increase in realism as you go deeper (northward), instead of increasing in difficulty? What if going deeper (northward) is how you give the DM permission to stop telegraphing danger, introducing monsters in small numbers before encountering them in large numbers, following the Three Clue rule, and avoiding effective-but-unfun traps and security protocols (like magical claymores that obliterate you with overkill, instead of just scaring you with medium damage)? What if player actions can signal the GM to stop doing the things that make it a fun game, and start doing the things to make it more of a realistic conflict simulator?

I love how the manifesto positions gaining insight as a core reason for play. Yes!
 
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Hemlock

Should be playing D&D instead
Another idea I just had: if the GM's job at the end of the session is to "score" the players' actions by handing out character points (or XP)... then in some scenarios, I should hand out character points for retreating! If retreat is a wise course of action given what has just been learned about the opposition, I should reward that intelligent decision the same as any other intelligent decision.

This might also make it more interesting to GM, because you're taking on the role of critical reviewer/mentor instead of a neutral observer. Commenting on player decisions would be welcome and expected after the delve is over, instead of feeling like interference.

I would still want to rotate GMs frequently though. Now I'm excited to try this as a method for awarding CP. I can't wait to plop down a spellcasting dragon and then reward the players for wisely hiding until it goes away. (Or killing it, if they manage to do so through other wise decisions, such as luring it into traps they found elsewhere or having meteoric iron bodkin arrows.) I have the soul of both a designer and a teacher, so the chance to design scenarios for people to learn from excites me.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Another idea I just had: if the GM's job at the end of the session is to "score" the players' actions by handing out character points (or XP)... then in some scenarios, I should hand out character points for retreating! If retreat is a wise course of action given what has just been learned about the opposition, I should reward that intelligent decision the same as any other intelligent decision.
Now that is an interesting idea. Should we give more experience for good ideas? Do we learn more from successes than failures?

Although learning from the wisdom (or lack thereof) is something the player ought to be doing, even if the character is not!

Of course then you need to adjudicate the value of the idea, which can be pretty subjective. Granting XP for the achievement of a goal is a more neutral measure; it also incorporates the wisdom of setting the goal (how likely is it to get you killed), the value of the goal (how much loot does the monster carry), and the strategy and tactical execution in furtherance of achieving the goal (what did it cost in resources or the lives of party members). On average over time, using goal achievement as a measure has a built-in determination of whether you are accurately assessing risks and rewards as well as the wisdom of the player's choices.

So, running away may be a wise choice, but what has it achieved? Other than to live so you can achieve measurable goals, which you can value by attaching a value to those goals. I mean, I could see a scenario where survival IS the goal (like the dungeon at the beginning of A4), but most of the time you are trying to achieve something else.

I think I talked myself into disagreeing with you.
 

Hemlock

Should be playing D&D instead
Now that is an interesting idea. Should we give more experience for good ideas? Do we learn more from successes than failures?

Although learning from the wisdom (or lack thereof) is something the player ought to be doing, even if the character is not!

Of course then you need to adjudicate the value of the idea, which can be pretty subjective. Granting XP for the achievement of a goal is a more neutral measure; it also incorporates the wisdom of setting the goal (how likely is it to get you killed), the value of the goal (how much loot does the monster carry), and the strategy and tactical execution in furtherance of achieving the goal (what did it cost in resources or the lives of party members). On average over time, using goal achievement as a measure has a built-in determination of whether you are accurately assessing risks and rewards as well as the wisdom of the player's choices.

So, running away may be a wise choice, but what has it achieved? Other than to live so you can achieve measurable goals, which you can value by attaching a value to those goals. I mean, I could see a scenario where survival IS the goal (like the dungeon at the beginning of A4), but most of the time you are trying to achieve something else.

I think I talked myself into disagreeing with you.
If we disagree it's only because we're striving to engineer different experiences. From the question you ask about learning more from successes than failures, you apparently are viewing gaining XP as a simulationist/diegetic reward to the player characters for live-fire practice. Although I am broadly very sympathetic to simulationism as an agenda, in this case I already view character advancement as a reward for the players, and in this case giving out advancement tokens for good decision-making serves to reward the GM and keep the game interesting. A bored GM leads to a lack of gaming, and a GM who is scrupulously striving to be fair and impartial risks boredom IME especially when the players are making excellent decisions. Trying to tempt players into making bad decisions (like drinking an unidentified potion on the off chance of a permanent stat boost) can be one source of entertainment, but I really like the idea of being able to tell players, after an adventure, what they did well/effectively (and to a certain extent, how they could have been more effective) as an actual gameplay loop and not unwanted backseat-driving. Half the time when I rant on Internet forums about D&D tactics it's because I've seen a player do something enormously counterproductive at the table--ranting online lets me get the pedagogical urge off my chest. But having a good excuse to give that feedback to the person who needs it most, without raining on their parade, is a really tempting idea for me.

For similar reasons I have no desire to penalize bad decisions, because:

(1) That would transform the GM character point (or XP) bonus awards from a positive experience about constructive criticism and mentoring, into a negative experience about being judged.

(2) Missing out on other rewards like treasure or the opportunity to transform an NPC's life for the better is its own penalty.

So, I really like the idea of giving an openly and completely subjective CP bonus award (in the range of 0-5 points) for insight and good decisions made, in addition to whatever monetary or CP award (in the 1-3 CP range) they earn by achieving personal or scenario goals. Shooting an ogre in the eye to claim its treasure? Not a particularly insightful decision if you shoot things in the eye all the time. Zero bonus CP for that, but at least you get its treasure. Seeing signs that plausibly indicate that the ogre might be a lich under an illusion, and either calling off the assault, negotiating with it to advance mutual goals, or managing to kill it with effective tactics? Very good decision, especially if it really is a lich. Worth some CP. Stupidly attacking a lich disguised as an ogre but winning anyway through sheer dumb luck like the GM being unable to roll above a 4 on the dice today? Still an unwise decision; you'll get its treasure or whatever but no bonus CP. And you'll have just made an Unkillable enemy to boot.

You may disagree with me but I don't disagree with you. However, I may want something different than you do.
 
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Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
I had more or less rejected my first paragraph by the time I was done my third. That is, I discarded the question of whether it was an accurate simulation in favour of an analysis that prefers neutrality in granting awards, which I would argue treats it as a game more than a simulation.

Also, I am surprised enough by decisions that seem dumb to me at the time but actually work out pretty well, even without a lot of lucky rolls, that I don't like to second-guess the value of a decision. The fact is, different people have different skills, and what is a good decision for one player can be a poor decision for another.*

I can't even imagine being bored when DMing, there is always so much to do, and so many things to respond to. This does not change when my players make arguably wrong choices that I never would have considered in my wildest dreams; at that point I have to figure out what the reasonable consequences will be ("All the clues point to the kidnappers taking a boat and travelling south along the river, you say? It must be a trick, we will march to the north, into the trackless wilderness!" [DM hurriedly tries to invent content for unkeyed area of map that was not designed to support wilderness crawling]).** Nothing challenges me so much as my players blundering around randomly. So I have no idea how to respond to your argument here.


*However, this will not prevent me from telling stories about allegedly stupid player decisions that wind up in epic fails.

**Actual campaign story. At this point I never work without an area map with a hex overlay, and Appendixes B & C handy, so I can procedurally generate content on the fly.
 
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Hemlock

Should be playing D&D instead
I can't even imagine being bored when DMing, there is always so much to do, and so many things to respond to. This does not change when my players make arguably wrong choices that I never would have considered in my wildest dreams; at that point I have to figure out what the reasonable consequences will be ("All the clues point to the kidnappers taking a boat and travelling south along the river, you say? It must be a trick, we will march to the north, into the trackless wilderness!" [DM hurriedly tries to invent content for unkeyed area of map that was not designed to support wilderness crawling]).** Nothing challenges me so much as my players blundering around randomly. So I have no idea how to respond to your argument here.
Then to you this is a solution in search of a problem, ergo you shouldn't use it.

For me, GMing is an act of service to my friends, but it's not fun per se. There are aspects which can be fun, but especially for stuff like combat, there's a lot of work which isn't fun for me to do unless there's dramatic uncertainty about who's going to win. E.g. running the monsters in a D&D 5E Medium encounter where the PCs are destined to win at the cost of nothing but a few HP and spell slots is deadly dull to me, and I generally would prefer to skip it (or make a computer do it while I relax and think about the big picture). But it would be less dull and more fun if I at least were acting as a coach running an OPFOR, taking notes to give to the players after the game on which of their strategies best maximize damage while minimizing HP loss. At least then I'd have something interesting to think about while the grues are dying.

Or maybe not. I guess that does still sound kind of dull when I say it out loud; maybe there's a reason I'm not running 5E any more. At any rate, even a scenario where there's the possibility of failure (like a Dungeon Fantasy fight, or a quadruple-deadly 5E encounter) can still be frustrating or boring for me to run realistically when the players aren't making any mistakes; I've been playing recently by giving them bonus points in exchange for me inserting ad hoc improbable complications a la "coincidentally, more monsters just happen to show up now", but in a tropeless, realism-oriented game I need another way to stay entertained or the game will die for lack of GMing.
 
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