Feedback Thread: Maps
- Thread starter Grützi
- Start date
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Yeah. 'C' for example is a residence that goes up three floors without any further connection to the surrounding structures. In the adventure key, I plan on describing each major area ('building') discretely. So:
Heading: Habitat (dark green).
Subheading: C: {Title} (e.g. 'Wealthy Residence')
Lvl 0: 1-2
Lvl 1: 1-4
Lvl 2: 1-4
D: Apartments
Lvl 0: 1
Lvl 1: 1-4
Lvl 2: 1-4
are you suggesting instead that I number the rooms under each Heading from 1-∞ regardless of the 'building' they occupy and/or level they're on? Like:
Habitat:
C: Wealthy Residence
Lvl 0: 11-12
Lvl 1: 21-22
Lvl 2: 31-32
D: Apartments
Lvl 0: 13
Lvl 1: 23-26
Lvl 2: 33-36
I think the problem is going to remain that the reader still might not associate the numbers with the corresponding building letters and end up getting frustrated looking in the wrong place in the text as a result. Squeen's idea to put the letter and number together is solid except it clutters up the page (and is also technically difficult to do in Photoshop (expanded below)). -Which might be another problem, I might be constrained by the limitations of my software regarding adding scattered text to a large, multi-layered artwork.
My problem is definitely associating the numbers with the letters here. Thanks for confirming my fears before I got too deep into this guys! I'll have to figure something else out. I'm definitely open to suggestions!
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I gave the A1-etc. thing a shot. Like I said; technically it's a bitch, but doable I guess. Particularly, if I restart the count from 1 at every level. It's a little more cluttered, but not terrible. I just think for VTT's big room numbers obscure the map for the DM.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I hate to say this, but maybe colour-coding the buildings, so for example in building C all coding is green?
Ultimately, though, I think your environments are just too complex and detailed for publication, and will be until you have 3D VTTs. Either you need to simplify the environment, or remove coded detail and trust the DM to improvise, or both.
Ultimately, though, I think your environments are just too complex and detailed for publication, and will be until you have 3D VTTs. Either you need to simplify the environment, or remove coded detail and trust the DM to improvise, or both.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I'm already colour-coding the 10 greater areas of the dungeon! I'm out of colours, lol.
I hear you about the complexity. I guess this was an exercise in pushing the boundaries of what could be done with 2D mapping. Definitely, I wish Roll20 had a layers option so I could show even simple multi-level rooms (like a classic balcony or overpass situation). Unfortunately, I'm way too far in to walk away from this at this point. I've just got to find a way to make it work!
Thanks again guys!
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
MapTool has an isometric option, I don't know if that helps. I haven't used it since beta, so I don't know how good it is.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Thanks. The CAD helps get is all to scale, and makes it easy to rearrange, but ultimately I very much prefer hand-drawn maps and will redraw it.
Here's another computer-assist. I need to draw a valley for a Lost World segment of play that's coming up next. The party need to guide a mule-train of raw materials to a landmark in the valley. I totally failed in my first attempt to draw the iso-valley, so I decided I needed to look at it more formally. I made a small 3D "relief tablet" in a home-grown modeler --- it's the 24 miles x 18 mile valley in my case at 1"=1 mile scale, but it could easily be a dungeon at 1" = 10-ft scale.
Here a sketch of my big "Aha!" realization that helped me find the vanishing points.
and a zoomed in view that let's you see the horizontal units across the top. The view was rendered in my ray-tracer with setting for a 35mm lens.
Here's another computer-assist. I need to draw a valley for a Lost World segment of play that's coming up next. The party need to guide a mule-train of raw materials to a landmark in the valley. I totally failed in my first attempt to draw the iso-valley, so I decided I needed to look at it more formally. I made a small 3D "relief tablet" in a home-grown modeler --- it's the 24 miles x 18 mile valley in my case at 1"=1 mile scale, but it could easily be a dungeon at 1" = 10-ft scale.
Here a sketch of my big "Aha!" realization that helped me find the vanishing points.
and a zoomed in view that let's you see the horizontal units across the top. The view was rendered in my ray-tracer with setting for a 35mm lens.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
The map in this one is gorgeous. The layout is really nice too.
tenfootpole.org
Aberrant Reflections
By directsun Self Published B/X Levels 1-4 At the bottom of an ancient temple, beyond the mirror’s edge, lies the spot where reality was sundered. Fortune and power await those who learn its …
tenfootpole.org
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I played in our campaign with the kids on Father's Day. It was wonderful and rare now to have everyone home, post college.
And because family comes first, it gave me an excuse to spend the morning putting together a map for where I imagined they would go --- back to the Aether Islet I originally made 3(!) years ago.
Here's the map of the 2nd (interior) level, finally placing the crashed lifeboat as I imagined it in 2020 and I'm about half-way done with the key. A map, even if random in places (and possibly needing to be fixed later), is always my genesis for ideas.
I drew it mainly with a dip pen and mapping nib, but picked up a #2 brush for the leeward tendrils and am pleased with the more organic effect. The shading was a 4B pencil. Photographed it with my phone, de-saturated it in GIMP and then I overlaid the grid and (mis)numbered it in my homebrewed AutoCAD (R13, circa. 1999) clone, finally back to GIMP for a fractal background. Overall, I am satisfied despite the "cartoon-y" look. I think the traditional tools pushes one in a certain direction. I just need to make my peace with it.
It's taken me awhile to get comfortable with that convoluted pipeline, but now it feels good. The one essential thing missing from my CAD-app is the ability to outline the text with a different color than they are filled (e.g. white around black) to ensure they stand out. With the NVIDIA path-filling extension for OpenGL, that's not a hard programing task, so it's up next for an app-upgrade when I can get a sliver of free time from work (Fall?).
The locale results in a high-level adventure which I would enter into NAP III if I had the time. Sadly, it would be disqualified because of all the new creatures and gonzo-tech elements in it (I think). I'd have to re-read the submission rules to be certain.
Of course, the irony is that they did NOT go there --- proclaiming that the Ethereal Plane is way too dangerous and required them to use up too many of their miserly horded magic items. Instead, they did a complete about-face and headed back to one of the Steading of the Hill Giant Chief for an assassination attempt on Chief Nosnra in order to prevent an impending invasion.
I need to write up how they went about it, because it's left me feeling once again that I am too lenient/incompetent a DM. So far they've found a way to avoid all combat while they hunt for the sleeping Chief's bedroom for planned mayhem.
And because family comes first, it gave me an excuse to spend the morning putting together a map for where I imagined they would go --- back to the Aether Islet I originally made 3(!) years ago.
Here's the map of the 2nd (interior) level, finally placing the crashed lifeboat as I imagined it in 2020 and I'm about half-way done with the key. A map, even if random in places (and possibly needing to be fixed later), is always my genesis for ideas.
I drew it mainly with a dip pen and mapping nib, but picked up a #2 brush for the leeward tendrils and am pleased with the more organic effect. The shading was a 4B pencil. Photographed it with my phone, de-saturated it in GIMP and then I overlaid the grid and (mis)numbered it in my homebrewed AutoCAD (R13, circa. 1999) clone, finally back to GIMP for a fractal background. Overall, I am satisfied despite the "cartoon-y" look. I think the traditional tools pushes one in a certain direction. I just need to make my peace with it.
It's taken me awhile to get comfortable with that convoluted pipeline, but now it feels good. The one essential thing missing from my CAD-app is the ability to outline the text with a different color than they are filled (e.g. white around black) to ensure they stand out. With the NVIDIA path-filling extension for OpenGL, that's not a hard programing task, so it's up next for an app-upgrade when I can get a sliver of free time from work (Fall?).
The locale results in a high-level adventure which I would enter into NAP III if I had the time. Sadly, it would be disqualified because of all the new creatures and gonzo-tech elements in it (I think). I'd have to re-read the submission rules to be certain.
Of course, the irony is that they did NOT go there --- proclaiming that the Ethereal Plane is way too dangerous and required them to use up too many of their miserly horded magic items. Instead, they did a complete about-face and headed back to one of the Steading of the Hill Giant Chief for an assassination attempt on Chief Nosnra in order to prevent an impending invasion.
I need to write up how they went about it, because it's left me feeling once again that I am too lenient/incompetent a DM. So far they've found a way to avoid all combat while they hunt for the sleeping Chief's bedroom for planned mayhem.
Last edited:
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
If you are already working with CAD based software, have you considered Campaign Cartographer (have I asked this before)?
I think that just makes them good players.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I have. It's just not for me.
I hope that's it. I will lay out their actions some time soon in another thread. Perhaps folks can help me see if I'm missing something.