squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Please, point me to a picture (if one exists) of your "orcs".
Dragonsfoot Magazine Adventures--Call Out
- Thread starter Malrex
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DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I'm not Malrex, but I think most people equate orcs to either Lord of the Rings orcs, or Warcraft orcs. Yours is more original than those portrayals, I think - like Homo Habilis Orcs.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Thanks DP!
Other than the Jackson movies, which I feel got their look wrong, I'm not sure what "Lord of the RIngs" orc look like.
When I first read LotR at age 7, it still felt "underground" and "cult"...a shared secret society. Hard to remember what I pictured then.
A bit later, from the animated movie, I got a mental picture of ape-like orcs...
I like that they are more silhouette than figures.
Jackson's movies always looked too brightly lit to me...
Didn't the man every watch a Hitchcock movie? What you don't see is WAY more scary...
Here's the Franzetta print (from a conan story) that I am modeling.
Obvious not an orc, but fits my mental map.
What I need to remember when drawing is that the head slopes back. Also, I like the gorilla feet too.
... Next time.
Other than the Jackson movies, which I feel got their look wrong, I'm not sure what "Lord of the RIngs" orc look like.
When I first read LotR at age 7, it still felt "underground" and "cult"...a shared secret society. Hard to remember what I pictured then.
A bit later, from the animated movie, I got a mental picture of ape-like orcs...
I like that they are more silhouette than figures.
Jackson's movies always looked too brightly lit to me...
Didn't the man every watch a Hitchcock movie? What you don't see is WAY more scary...
Here's the Franzetta print (from a conan story) that I am modeling.
Obvious not an orc, but fits my mental map.
What I need to remember when drawing is that the head slopes back. Also, I like the gorilla feet too.
... Next time.
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Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I can find no picture that suits my mental image. I lean toward grey skin tones, ranging from grey-blue to grey-green, maybe some greyish tan.
Tusks are a defining characteristic of my orcs. (Said by an old orc a of a tough half-orc who could pass for human, "For a kid who's got no tusks, that kid's got tusks!")
My orcs are also not necessarily monstrous in appearance. When you run campaigns where orcs are no more evil than anyone else, and half-orcs are generally not the product of sexual assault, at least some orcs have to have some characteristics that are likely to be appealing to some humans. I also allow for a lot of variety in this regard, so an old orc might have really long tusks, a strongly protruding jaw, heavy jowls, and a pear-shaped (but powerful) body; while a young orc might have a face with smaller tusks and a less prominent jaw, and be more trim.
Orc females have smaller tusks or no tusks. I decided at one point that the orc language does not have certain consonants because they are hard to pronounce with tusks, but that female orcs share a sub-dialect that uses those sounds for topics they don't want to discuss with the men. I played around with a name for a type of particularly effective axe wielded by women; in order to discourage the men from taking their stuff, they came up with a name for the axe which, when pronounced by someone with tusks, sounded like the orc word for female genitals. "You want me to give your what back, dear?"
Tusks are a defining characteristic of my orcs. (Said by an old orc a of a tough half-orc who could pass for human, "For a kid who's got no tusks, that kid's got tusks!")
My orcs are also not necessarily monstrous in appearance. When you run campaigns where orcs are no more evil than anyone else, and half-orcs are generally not the product of sexual assault, at least some orcs have to have some characteristics that are likely to be appealing to some humans. I also allow for a lot of variety in this regard, so an old orc might have really long tusks, a strongly protruding jaw, heavy jowls, and a pear-shaped (but powerful) body; while a young orc might have a face with smaller tusks and a less prominent jaw, and be more trim.
Orc females have smaller tusks or no tusks. I decided at one point that the orc language does not have certain consonants because they are hard to pronounce with tusks, but that female orcs share a sub-dialect that uses those sounds for topics they don't want to discuss with the men. I played around with a name for a type of particularly effective axe wielded by women; in order to discourage the men from taking their stuff, they came up with a name for the axe which, when pronounced by someone with tusks, sounded like the orc word for female genitals. "You want me to give your what back, dear?"
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Beoric has a good pic of how I visualize orcs. Tusks are key for me. Dare I say, I sorta do like the orcs from Warcraft? ugh probably taboo to say.
Sorta pictured them like this as a kid, due to the cartoon.
These guys from Star Wars...this sort of nails it for me...but them being so plump kinda makes them comical. But the pig snout and face is good.
But I do like this look--not necessarily the rippling biceps and all that crap, but mainly the facial features and big teeth. Id want them a little uglier/rugged than this--For me, this might be more of a half-orc.
But honestly, I like what you have got going too. You have that rough background and it leaves things to the imagination. I think it looks cool...but maybe try adding some tusks one time and see.
Sorta pictured them like this as a kid, due to the cartoon.
These guys from Star Wars...this sort of nails it for me...but them being so plump kinda makes them comical. But the pig snout and face is good.
But I do like this look--not necessarily the rippling biceps and all that crap, but mainly the facial features and big teeth. Id want them a little uglier/rugged than this--For me, this might be more of a half-orc.
But honestly, I like what you have got going too. You have that rough background and it leaves things to the imagination. I think it looks cool...but maybe try adding some tusks one time and see.
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Because nobody's mentioned it, orcs in my mind always looked like this:
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I feel like the darker I paint over the image in the overlay layer, the more "furry" he becomes to my eye---more bestial, and more scary.
Orcs as ferocious animals---not some sort of "noble savage" you want to play as a PC race.
Instead, the other --- wild fey magic mixed with animal savagery. That's what I'd strive to evoke.
Either way --- still need some armor to get out of the Stone Age. Me thinks.
Thank you all for the wonderful help.
Orcs as ferocious animals---not some sort of "noble savage" you want to play as a PC race.
Instead, the other --- wild fey magic mixed with animal savagery. That's what I'd strive to evoke.
Cave man-ish (original) | Ape Man-ish (furrier?) |
Either way --- still need some armor to get out of the Stone Age. Me thinks.
Thank you all for the wonderful help.
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DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Oddly enough, the way the darker one is shaded makes the axe look more like a club (appropriately so). I dig it.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I gave poor old Homo Habilis Orcus some armor and a sword so he didn't look so out-of-place in a medieval dungeon
...although, I admit, he doesn't look too sure about what to do with them.
I'm thinking 1-1 HD tops.
(Dude's got to find his inner gorilla...looks like he just pee'd himself a little bit.)
...although, I admit, he doesn't look too sure about what to do with them.
I'm thinking 1-1 HD tops.
(Dude's got to find his inner gorilla...looks like he just pee'd himself a little bit.)
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squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I think the helmet may be increasing the orc's dork-factor. I might ditch them for the final scene.
(yeah, I know...3 in 6 chance an intelligent opponent will attempt a head-shot vs. AC 9).
I added tusks too---but I may have put them in the wrong place.
(yeah, I know...3 in 6 chance an intelligent opponent will attempt a head-shot vs. AC 9).
I added tusks too---but I may have put them in the wrong place.
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Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
WRT the previous two images, the darker image really makes his bracelet pop. It's interesting, it implies that he or his culture values an aesthetic that has nothing to do with war or death. I'm not getting "animal savagery" out of either image, or "human savagery" for that matter. Nothing that says "I kill for the joy of wanton slaughter" rather than "I am protecting my home and people". The necklace looks like it is made of predator teeth, which doesn't really change things; I knew lots of people who wore shark tooth pendants when I was a teenager. If it was human teeth, or something like fingers, that would get you closer.
The one with the helmet looks like he's about to cry. I want to tell him it's gonna be ok, but that would be a lie because the PCs are probably gonna kill him.
The one with the helmet looks like he's about to cry. I want to tell him it's gonna be ok, but that would be a lie because the PCs are probably gonna kill him.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I think the lastest one (orc#3) belongs in the background of a scene in which the hero has just chopped the heads off of two of his gang.
As the Artist (fluffing feathers), what I was trying to emote was that sense of panic felt by the poor misunderstood orc. That's why I entitled this piece, "Morale Roll". Oh, and by-the-way.......you are all Nerds.
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Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
Ha! In answer your earlier post, add them to my kid's pokemon collection. Just like this guy:
Your monsters are adorkable! Hugs all round!
Your monsters are adorkable! Hugs all round!
DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
The nose is much better in that last iteration, squeen. I think the idea is clear though - don't get caught overthinking it, or you'll be forever making minor alterations until you hate the damn thing.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
Now he looks determined, like he knows what's coming and he's ready to face it to protect his people. A certain resigned nobility.
Sorry, @squeen, I can't help but see the humanity in this guy. Its like you're trying to draw a flat, cardboard stereotype but you keep accidentally creating something with depth and interest. I'm so much more interested in running this guy than a stereotypical orc.
Sorry, @squeen, I can't help but see the humanity in this guy. Its like you're trying to draw a flat, cardboard stereotype but you keep accidentally creating something with depth and interest. I'm so much more interested in running this guy than a stereotypical orc.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Some sagely advice---know when it's time to walk away. I kept fiddling mainly as a learning exercise. (moving eyebrows, squinting eyes, pushing that nose ALL the way up---gorilla noses are kinda gross, putting reflections in the shield, etc.). I am not joking when I say I haven't drawn much of anything since middle-school. I'm seeing that there is a ton of things I need to learn about anatomy---especially the muscle groups in the arms, legs and back. Learning about lighting through raytracing software has helped, but...
I honestly can't tell if you are trolling me a bit, or that's a compliment. I'll assume it's the latter and say "thanks". It's not my intent to turn our orc here into sympathetic a character, but if the illustrastion inspires you to do more than just "they attack", that's great. That's actually the whole point of this exercise---all I've ever really drawn before are human faces, so I'm having a very hard time moving away from humanizing monsters (and drawing human proportions). The only other observable source for the inhuman, is animals---hence the learning towards apes for a reference. In the Wikipedia article on the Aliens xenomorph, it mentions how the artist who created their look removed the eyes to prevent us from relating to them. I'm not trying for a flat stereotype, but instead to evoke a Jung-ian predatory fear from our collective unconscious. It seems a bit of a cheat to evoke fear through angry human expressions. How then? Sadly, my skills are insufficient, and the arrow fall short of its mark.
To my style of play, all monsters are a metaphor for our nightmares. Early humans were once prey. In order to evoke terror from non-men, we need to tap into our primal fear of the wild. Snakes, wolves, large raptors, etc. Orcs in particular (per Tolkien) are containers for our worst human traits. They are cruel, petty, and wantonly destructive to all life---a proxy for our own worst tendencies to indulge our basest animal lusts. Not the worse of sinners (leave that to demons), but vile, indifferent, and self-centered in the way gangs of young men can be. That's the role they fill in the D&D mythos to me.
I once attended a lecture by Kurt Vonnegurt, warning would-be writers to avoid the pitfall of giving us the woeful backstory for their villains. It's a common mistake that ruins many classic bad-guys. The fantasy genre, in particular, needs a foil to play its heroic deeds against. Something irredeemable. It's critical to let the bad-guys just be bad.
My orcs are also mules. No orc-wives, no orc babies. Just a mixing of wild fey magic corrupting the animal world---a container for the potential for petty evil found in all men. No culture---just self. All orcs are "half" something. Half-orcs are made by the the degenerate experimenting of evil wizards on men (looking at you Saruman).
I feel that players wanting to play non-humans is an attempt at a cheat-code---they are trying to hijack the eldritch strength of the mysterious wild to augment their PC, and wear its mystic aura like a suit of armor. Inside, they will continue to be unavoidably human, but like a shaman wearing a leopard pelt, they cloak themselves in the mysterious and caper about stupidly. If the hobby enables them, then the already frail otherness---something so very, very difficult to evoke---is made mundane (once again). The lights are all turned on, and the menacing shadows are revealed to be just your younger brother with a sheet over his head.
Point taken. I have a habit of working on the most difficult (for me) bits first because I don't know how much time they are going to take, and if left for the end, will usually get cut out by the deadline. It's now time to give some love to the text (and start the final art piece). Next I need to redo the maps, that should break the dam and unleash the creative waters of prose.
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