Advise on Running G1

[squeen]

Note Trampier's 1970's Kool-Aid Man jug on the shelf!

I have never run G1 before, although I have a vague memory from the 70's of playing through it as a PC. I know it's suppose to be a big challenge for most players and my group has just started it. So far they are short-circuiting most of the module, and I fear it's my own in inadequacies as a DM that is allowing this. I'd appreciate any tips or pointers in what I might be doing wrong (omitting?).

We are playing AD&D (1e).

[Sorry there's more but the board won't let me paste it in. Hang on while I debug.]

 

[squeen]

BACKGROUND
On Father's Day, all the kids were home and we had time to play a session in our campaign that has been rolling along since about 2012. I prepped a new level in the Ethereal Planes adventure they had visited about 3 years ago, because of some idle talk from my daughter on wanting to return there and try and locate a certain creature.

Well, all that went out the window when my son started strategizing. They had recently rescued a scout from the Ogre Fens (where I placed the Hill Giant's Steading) who informed them the giants were gathering for an attack against the human capitol city. They had been trekking through the Fens to get to the Steading with the notion of killing Chief Nosnra, when they ran into some Hill Giants scouts. Taking their most Thor-like PC alone and by surprise, the giants whacked her to with an inch of her life. This caused a profound change in their perceived chances against the giants. They decided to return promptly to the capitol city, and that's where we left it last January's session.

So, it surprised me when they decided the threat could not be ignored while they tromped off to greener pastures, and decided to finish what they had started. This 180-deg about-face caught me flat-footed as DM!

These players are three nearly name-level characters levels 8-9, but because they have been adventuring for so long, they have a large assortment of accumulated magic and fairly capable henchmen/companions.

They play a hobbit thief 8, elven cleric 9, and elven magic-user 9. It seems like the appropriate level-mix for G1.

So they gathered up the scout (who knew his way through Giant Territory), a small squad of eight 4th level men-at-arms from the army (long story why that's not as casual as it sounds), plus a friendly MU(4), and the 2 fighter NPCs (6th level) and one "Stone Troll" (6HD) that have been with them for years now.

 

[squeen]

PLAY SESSION
As high level PCs, they has some "travel magic" that allowed them to move quickly through dangerous territory and by-pass many threats along the road via a 10-league-boots dimension-door of sorts. The scout takes them to the "safe cave" from G1 which I had placed on my world map about 4 leagues away from the Steading.

The next day, they left the cave, choosing the route through the woods (I rolled random encounters, but there was only one minor event) and then laid low --- surveilling the Steading. Waiting until the middle of the night, when all the sounds died down, and the MU cast fly and invisibility on the thief. He spent a little time circumnavigating the Steading before deciding to fly in through the Watch Tower (1B) and down its stairs. I didn't see any way in which he would disturb the drunk and sleeping giant in the tower.

Likewise, I didn't see how he might alert the two sleeping/drunk giants in the Entry and Cloak room. (I rolled a 1 in 20 chance anyway---nothing happened).

He then try to open some doors on a mission to find the sleeping Chief's bedroom and attempt the hit. When he realized he was going to have trouble with the doors, he quickly flew back to the group and obtained a magic ring from one of the fighters that increased his strength significantly.

Returning to the Cloak Room, he applied lamp oil to the hinges of the doors and attempted to open them silently. To see if he woke the guards while opening the doors, I rolled his thief chance for Move Silently, which for him is about 80%. Success both times.

He's flying (invisible) along the hallways, listening at doors and peeking under them trying to determine with room is the Chief's.

At one point I rolled a wandering monster check and had a giant come down the hall and return to his sleeping quarters. I know that giants, with only 8 HD and a low intelligence, don't really have a chance of seeing invisible by the DMG table. So unless he does something stupid (or meets an exceptional giant), as a hobbit thief he's going to be pretty good at sneaking. Also, he said that when the giant appeared, he flew up into the ceiling rafters of the Steady and hid there.

It feels like I'd be a jerk if I concocted some artificial and implausible way to thwart his stealth, so I continued to follow EOTB's sound advise about "letting the PCs win" when they play smart. He manage to eliminate only two rooms as candidates, and is contemplating using either his potion of gaseous form or oil of etherealness to get around having to open room doors.

So that's where we left it. They've broken the cardinal rule of "splitting the party", but it's really just recognizance so far.

They giants have never met the party and have no idea they are coming to get them, so wouldn't be on high alert.

Most of the module's set-pieces have been short-circuited because they waited until the wee hours of the night (i.e. no banquets hall feast).

The party are not looking for treasure, just a hit-and-run assassination job, so they aren't poking into things.

They have a lot of magical aids that tilt the playing field their way.

 

[squeen]

WHAT AND I MISSING?
Am I making this too easy for them?

I am having a hard time thinking of how exactly the poop is going to hit-the-fan unless they take a big misstep.

Can you murder a sleeping giant in one round, regardless of hp? I think "yes".

Should I re-jigger the whole Steading now a the "night shift"? Who are the night guards? Who has insomnia? What rats come out of the woodwork?

Help!

 

[Beoric]

TL;DR: You worry too much, if you just have the inhabitants of the steading act according to their nature, something will blow up eventually.

To answer your questions:

1. No

2. See below.

3. Yes, but people and giants can make noise when they die, and they tend to flail around and shit all over the place; they could kill the chief but still alert the steading. The sleeping chief may not be alone, may be sleeping fitfully, may be briefly awake, may be sleeping with other giants or pets who are awake etc. And the assassin will no longer be invisible. Also, see below.

4. See below.

The banquet doesn't go into the wee hours? I assumed it did. I mean, aren't these giants assumed to be seriously debaucherous? So maybe they party all night, and the guests sleep all day, but the halls are more active with servants during the day. So there isn't really a good time.

Also, I would try not to have things be too routine. Who is where should change on a regular basis throughout the day and night. Who else might be sleeping in the Chief's room? Has he perhaps crashed somewhere else for the day? Maybe sometimes the gate guard is not asleep. Maybe he is being visited by a buddy.

Also, there are a lot of rooms to explore, and hallways to go down, so there are many chances for something to go wrong. The chief's room is not a great deal different from the other rooms, how can they be sure which one is his? I note the chief's room contains nothing of value, but the sub-chief's room has a bunch of treasure. Do they know what the chief looks like enough to distinguish his face-down sleeping form from another giant? And the invisibility table is only necessary when there are no other ways the PC can be detected. From that same section of the DMG:

Invisibility is not what most players desire it to be. It is neither a soundproofing nor an odor preventative. Normal sound issues from the invisible creature, just as normal odors do. Monsters might well be able to hear, smell, or see the invisible character. Furthermore, the associates of the invisible party are not able to see him or her any better than foes are, so this can cause problems, too. Now consider a silence spell and large area invisibility cast upon a party. Imagine the chaos within the area as characters stub their toes on the heels of the person before them, with the inability to hear anything so that falls, suggestions as to what should be done, or orders cannot be heard. Consider also that dust on the floor will betray most invisibility, as will dust or powder in the air. Think of a door opening without any visible cause; will this cause suspicion in the mind of the viewer (particularly when the surroundings are taken into account!)? You bet it will!

The chief has a chain for his cave bear in the room, which is probably in the room when he sleeps, and which can smell invisible characters. And the chief is 10 HD, and arguably smarter than average. And the table allows a check each round, and dumb creatures with keen senses can be treated as intelligent.

Your players are clearly cautious, I cannot imagine a single halfling will attempt to kill a giant who might be the chief, with other opponents in the room, including a bear that is sniffing about trying to find him (and may have noticed the smell of the lamp oil when it was applied), when he knows he will instantly be visible, and will have to get out of the steading unaided. Eventually the whole party probably needs to go in; are they all able to be invisible and move about silently for an indefinite period?

You can also apply time pressure. Do the giants go out raiding? What do the PCs do when the giants start massacring villages?

And you can find ways to change this into not just an assassination mission. The above mentioned raiding helps, but throwing in a hook that makes them want to explore, like overheard discussions hinting at links to a mysterious backer, and evidence planted somewhere in the steading, could also work. ("Is the note from E somewhere safe?" "Yeah, I stashed it in the small dining room.")

This does not seem too easy to me. You have a party of three with an average level of slightly less than 9. The module recommends a party of nine with an average level of at least 9. The party is right to be cautious; if you try to ramp things up too much, you are likely to have an unfair TPK-through-DM-fiat on your hands.

If despite all of the above they manage to pull it off, give them the win.

 

[squeen]

I had thought about the bear, but not much else. And while I considered having the banquet lasting all night, it felt wrong---like purposely blunting their strategy (and I've a feeling they would have just waited a day). I didn't want to put them in a boxcar so I could run the written-text railroad. I challenged myself to be more of a dynamic responder as DM.

As for smelling invisible creatures ("Fee fi fo fum...I smell the blood of a hobbit?")...the MM doesn't explicitly call that out as a Hill Giant trait, but it is tempting to leverage once alerted.

You are correct. He will have trouble getting out, and fly only last so long (although he has a fly potion on him in addition to the others I mentioned).

I appreciate the suggestions. Thank you!

 

[Beoric]

I always thought it was implicit they would party all night, like the stereotypical viking stand-ins they are supposed to be. So that wasn't me trying to sole your problem, it has always been my interpretation.

Giants may not be able to smell hobbits, but bears and wolves can. Also, use a random weather table, and if it rains, the PCs drip water on the floor; if it rained the night before, they track in mud. In real life, oil does not disperse through the entire hinge until you work it a few times, so this tactic has a chance of failing. (Honestly, hinges are relatively modern, in medieval settings I use an older mortised post system, which is pretty tough to oil since it is wood or iron rubbing against wood or stone.) The module states that heavy giant doors follow standard dungeon door rules, and need to be forced open, making noise; this also requires leverage, and probably can't be done by a flying person. (Although at least these doors stay open once they are opened - but then they may have a similar problem closing them!) The hobbit likely won't be able to open many of the doors at all, assuming he isn't wearing a girdle of giant strength and he fails open door checks on a regular basis.

My guess is they only have a limited number of potions and spell slots to devote to invisibility, flying, silence, etc. And both flying spells and potions have a random duration, not known to the recipient; a falling hobbit makes a pretty big thump. Keep strict time records, and make them burn resources. Keep in mind the sections on moving, searching, detecting things, and doors on DMG p. 96-7 (well some of the advice sucks, I wouldn't mock them, but the non-asshole stuff is good). How fast is the hobbit going, is he taking the time to make a map? Is he failing to make a map, and therefore risking getting lost? Is he blowing a turn picking a lock, or however much time you rule it takes to force open a heavy door (at least a round, I would say)?

This is meant to be a challenging environment, so let it be challenging. Just the door issue is likely a significant obstacles to getting good reconnaissance using a single character. He needs to open a minimum of 4 doors, including the front gate, to get into the chief's room, assuming he lucks out and finds it on his first try; a single average strength character would have about a 20% chance of opening all of them. Apply the existing rules, and keep good time records, and they will be lucky to get out alive.

 

[Malrex]

WHAT AND I MISSING?
Am I making this too easy for them?

I am having a hard time thinking of how exactly the poop is going to hit-the-fan unless they take a big misstep.

Can you murder a sleeping giant in one round, regardless of hp? I think "yes".

Should I re-jigger the whole Steading now a the "night shift"? Who are the night guards? Who has insomnia? What rats come out of the woodwork?

Help!

1. Nope, not too easy.
2. Why does the poop have to hit the fan? Maybe it doesn't. I'm sure the tension alone of the hobbit doing this is fun for them, so if they pull it off, then cool.
3. I'd say yes, you could murder it. I still have my guys roll to hit...because a 1 is a 1! but anything else...then sure. Works on them too.
4. You could have some wandering encounters...I don't remember the adventure, its been awhile, but if there are other monsters, maybe they are scurrying about if the giants are passed out after partying...maybe there are some lustful giants playing games...I cant really see the hill giants having a night guard....but maybe there are a few hardcore weekend warriors who are still drunk and wandering about.

Overall, players can always do stuff unexpected--just flow with it. I'm sure you could cook up a great revenge or giant hunting party. Who is to say if they murder the chief and escape....that the next chief might be way way worse...

 

[Beoric]

2. Why does the poop have to hit the fan? Maybe it doesn't. I'm sure the tension alone of the hobbit doing this is fun for them, so if they pull it off, then cool.

+1 on this!

 

[The1True]

Who is to say if they murder the chief and escape....that the next chief might be way way worse...

+1 THIS! (although, I guess that's the whole point of the 'Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl'?)

 

[Johann]

Looks fine to me. The scouting sounds plenty tense and as Beoric pointed out, chances are something will go wrong eventually. And if it doesn't: congratulations.

I should note I also assumed the party might stretch into the wee hours of the morning - I rolled for it. IIRC, I rolled every hour to see if the chief would go to bed. That way, this important development is up to the dice.

 

[squeen]

Oh yes Johann, that is The Way. I often forget.

 

[The Heretic]

PLAY SESSION
<snip>
The party are not looking for treasure, just a hit-and-run assassination job, so they aren't poking into things.

Interesting. Every group I've run through the module decides to go in through one of the chimneys.

I say let them do the assassination, if they are lucky enough. They'll think the threat is gone but you can keep the threat active, especially if you intend to use it as part of the GDQ series. The drow will replace the chieftain with someone else. When they discover that the assassination didn't get rid of the threat they'll come back and do a more thorough investigation.

 

[The Heretic]

Also, don't forget that the chief has a pet cave bear that will be in his room with him. That should complicate things a bit. Look at room 7 (the room of the chief's wife), according to Gary the cave bears can smell the PCs and will attack immediately.

 

[squeen]

Also, don't forget that the chief has a pet cave bear that will be in his room with him. That should complicate things a bit. Look at room 7 (the room of the chief's wife), according to Gary the cave bears can smell the PCs and will attack immediately.

Heretic! Always great to hear from you.

I've got an update on all of this, but not a lot of time to post right now. Maybe at the end of the week I'll have a decent write-up.

 

[Malrex]

Cool, I like reading writeups!! I know they can take some time.
I was thinking of doing one for my group at the moment. They are playtesting Vermilion but have drifted and are tackling Brine Lord Cassidy's Tomb...almost had a TPK but one survived and one is stoned.

 

[squeen]

...and one is stoned.

Does he always arrive to games in that state? If so, might consider an intervention. It could be a cry for help.

 

[Malrex]

Does he always arrive to games in that state? If so, might consider an intervention. It could be a cry for help.

Heh...actually used to play with a guy that got us all stoned he smoked so much during play (we play in a garage)--He never seemed affected. But he is gone now and our munchies have disappeared as well.

 

[Johnny F. Normal]

We played G1 semi-recently and I strongly suggest checking out Joe Bloch's G1A - The Steading of the Hill Giant Chief the Lower Caverns.
My crew ran away.
Probably something to do with me adding a carrion crawler brood mother (i.e.. Aliens)... When hobos are not murdering they are running away.

 

[squeen]

The final(?) play report, as advertised.

FLESH GOLEM

My one and only use as a DM (or player) with a flesh golem occurred about two weeks ago. My group was returning from a successful foray into the G1 Steading, having slain Chief Nosnra (asleep in his bed) and rapidly got the heck out of Dodge.

On the way to their next destination, they stopped back at a Watchtower on the periphery of the Kingdom, having been granted stewardship of it by the new King, whom their had helped secure the throne. They had visited this structure about half a dozen times in our campaign as they went to-and-fro on their various adventures, with the first time being around probably around 2014 (good old Lareth, from T1 was hiding there, licking his wounds).

One of their henchmen, who they traveled with off-and-on (most off) over the years was charged with maintaining their holding while they were away. This fella, being a careful sort, went poking into the parts of the dungeon that the PCs had previously ignored and discovered a locked room---a martial equipment storage and distribution annex in which I had placed a patiently waiting flesh golem, oh so many years ago.

The saw the figure through the bars of an adjoining room and tried to communicate, but nothing roused him. It was programmed to attack anyone entering the inner-most room (not terribly clever design on my part). So, feeling cocky after a successful mission, my PCs thought "What the heck?" and picked the lock and entered (single-file).

Predictably, the golem rose and attacked the lead PC, jamming up the doorway so it only had to melee the single opponent.

The lead PC, who is (temporarily) carrying a set of relics---Hammer of Thunderbolts, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Girdle of Giant Strength---throws the hammer and does a good bit of damage to the golem, knocking it down to 16 or so hp in exchange for a minor beating. I was worried the fun would be over before it really got started.

However, things got interesting when---because the rest of the party could not rush in and beat the monster to a pulp---the MU decided to cast a lightning bolt at it through the bars of the next room. One could argue that you can't cast lighting through bars...but I was so thrilled that she was about to make such a classic mistake, I eagerly allowed it.

As you all know, the lightning recharged the flesh golem back to full hp! Also, some other spells, and non-magical missiles bounced off of it to no effect.

Well, that was enough to scare even a high-level party and they tried to beat a hasty retreat---forcing the strong iron-bound door closed, and locking it magically.

That's when FLESH GOLEM SPECIAL ABILITIES PART II kicked in, right on cue. I knew right from the MM that it would smash through the door in 5-8 melee rounds. Perfect.

They retreated and set up a trap. A ways back in the dungeon, they knew there was a trap door in the stairs which could be manipulated to drop the golem into a pit of spikes. They retreated to the top of the stairs...waited for the golem in enter the room below...tossed a fireball in on him for good measure (I did my best Frankenstein. Hate. Fire! schtick, but it only slowed him by 50%, per the MM).

I let them drop him on the poison spikes, but I ruled falling 20-ft and spikes were "normal weapons" so neither damaged it. It then ran out a side passage and leap down from the cliffs into a swiftly moving river, never to be seen again(?). It was a perfect "Frankenstein Escapes for the Sequel" ending to a series of events I couldn't have scripted better if I'd tried.

I was so happy to not only be using a creature I had placed there as a noob DM almost a decade ago, but to have hit all the high points in the MM regarding its unique nature. What stood out for me was:

• immunity to normal weapons is somewhat scary, but having most spells have no effect is far better as a terror weapon (I enjoyed describing how the spells fizzled)
• the lightning recharge is a once-only gotcha---but it was SO sweet

So I guess I want to heap some posthumous praise of EGG and crew for their thoughtful creation of monsters that can threaten a nearly name-level party. I saw something similar with the giants throwing boulders in G1. There is plenty of beautiful game-balance baked into vanilla AD&D.
-------

On a final note, my son (and chief risk-taker in party) has just moved out to the West Coast to work in Silicon Valley, so I am not sure if there will be anymore family D&D nights after this. There was a bittersweet feeling to that past session, ending over a decade of continuous campaign play. It seemed fitting that they played it in the Eastern Watchtower which was one of the first "complete" adventure sites I formally wrote up, making clean maps, etc. and I have "reloaded" it on several occasions for return trips over the years. That golem has been sitting there waiting all this time and the encounter delivered on all counts---that being one that is interesting/different (not a slug-fest) and also jabbing a sliver of fear into the hearts of the players.

That a henchman, who was one of the few to survive (give or a take a raise dead or two) from when they were novice players, was also involved felt particularly apropos since he had originally acted as my in-game voice to mentor them on how to play D&D.

It's been a great ride.