Psionics--Dimension Door

[Malrex]

I got a few questions about Dimension Door. I'm taking over as DM and basically have a player playing a psionicist/thief. He has the psychoportive science and likes to use Dimension Door. His tactic is to cast one door in front of him and the other portal elsewhere so that the creature in front of him falls through the door, then maybe falls out of the ceiling or wherever...and then the creature is stunned for a round. Here is the power:



I got a few questions:
1. What does the Dimension Door look like? I always imagined it like Skeletor's in He-Man...but it says its a "vaguely outlined portal". The player believes that if it was cast on a wall, it would look like a wall but distorted--maybe like a mirage. I'm wondering if its more like a window that you can see through to the other side where the other door is? Basically, I think he wants to know how noticeable it is, so he can sneak around better, etc. I could imagine the wizard version maybe being more like Skeletor's..but not sure about a psionicists.

2. For targets that are in front of him that would fall through the Dimension Door--would you allow a saving throw? If so...against what? since its not a spell but psionics. Or do you just have the creature fall through automatically with no saving throw? Or do you allow the creature to try an attack or grab the psionicist before they fall through?

Would love your thoughts/opinions. This is mainly 2e rules but if there is decent rules/descriptions about it in other rules, would be happy to hear it.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

With regards to the spell Dimension Door: The whole "door" aspect is missing from both the AD&D spell definition and the 5e one (just checked the PHB for both). In both cases, the spell description explains that Dimension Door just instantly teleports you a certain distance, and that you can take someone with you sometimes. There's no actual physical door to pass through in either edition - it's basically just Misty Step v2.0, or the beta version of the Teleportation spell. I know it's a videogame, but for what it's worth, this is how it functions in Baldur's Gate too.

That being said, 2e D&D is a whole different edition and your definition above actually mentions a physical portal being opened, so the rulings of other editions wouldn't apply, and you'll just need to make a judgement call as a DM.

 

[The Heretic]

I'd allow a saving throw or a Dex check. Maybe Save vs Breath Weapon or Save vs Rods/Staves/Wands (or whatever the terminology was in 2e).

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Definitely a saving throw called for. Presumably a creature could stop itself from entering a "vaguely outlined portal" if it saw one (if the door were invisible I'd say not, but because it specifically says it is visible, that allows the target a chance to react/defend against it).

 

[Beoric]

In-universe, I would probably rule that the portal had certain safety settings baked into it, because the immediate thing that occurred to my player-brain is that I would cast the door in a way that it bisected an enemy.

I also note that a door cast "in front of the psionicist," in "whatever orientation the psionicist chooses," suggests that you can cast the door underneath an enemy that is right next to you, so you don't even need to try to lure him in.

For that matter, you could cast it slightly underground. My character would no doubt spend his downtime practicing casting the portal under various surfaces, so that it was not so shallow that the earth would just fall into it, but shallow enough that an enemy stepping on it would cause the surface beneath to collapse. Another possibility, if this capability exists in the system, is to first cast an illusion on the ground that looks identical to the ground itself, and then casting the door underneath that; the earth may fall into the door, but you can't tell that from the illusion (although the earth would fall out the other side of the portal).

The language, "If someone (including the psionicist) steps into either portal," suggests that the spell definitely contemplates using it on enemies; using the parenthetical instead of language like "the psionicist and his allies" or even, "any creature," suggests that the caster is not necessarily the primary user of the door.

I'm interpreting the language "vaguely outlined" as meaning the edges are fuzzy, not that the portal is difficult to see. My assumption is that light also traverses the portal, meaning it would not be invisible. I expect that what one would see looking through it is a blurry mess of colours, including both light from the other side of the portal on the material plane, and light from the portal-world, mixed together in a way that makes objects within and on the others side indistinguishable from each other.

For the saving throw question, since I assume surviving enemies will pick up the players' tactics, how would the players feel about not getting a saving throw?

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I also note that a door cast "in front of the psionicist," in "whatever orientation the psionicist chooses," suggests that you can cast the door underneath an enemy that is right next to you, so you don't even need to try to lure him in.

The language, "If someone (including the psionicist) steps into either portal," suggests that the spell definitely contemplates using it on enemies;

For the saving throw question, since I assume surviving enemies will pick up the players' tactics, how would the players feel about not getting a saving throw?

If spawned beneath, there's still call for a save to avoid - in modern D&D this would be a Reflex or DEX save; a reflexive jumping aside as the ground falls away beneath your feet.

As for the language, I notice how it says "steps" and not "contacts" or "moves through" - there could be some ambiguity there to make a case that using a Dimension Door is a deliberate, purposeful action. The "if someone" part merely implies that others beyond the caster can use the door; it does not seem to slant towards opponents or the unwilling, just "others".

 

[Malrex]

Thanks all...I was leaning towards a saving throw...and not Dex. I don't want to roll random Dex's for each creature.
I hadn't thought of using psionics to put the door into a target--thus slicing them in half--nasty. I won't allow that.

We got some table rules with set kills too. If someone is sleeping or Hold Person...its easier to kill that opponent. So someone that is stunned for a round after stepping through a door leads to easy kills. No enemies have psionics in the adventure, so its not like I can use the tactic against the players--nor do I want to stoop to that level. I'm just not all that experienced with Psionics and trying to run a fair, enjoyable game...which includes me too.

Honestly, I just really don't like psionics--never have. A 2nd level guy is running around and has cast 3-4 dimension doors already because it doesn't take many PSPs. But I'm trying to balance my annoyance vs player fun...but to me, it seems boring (i.e. dimension door the boss, its stunned...set kill. Rinse and repeat). That hasn't happened yet, but I could see it happening. Being able to teleport through a dimension door, and brining the party with you, is basically a dungeon killer/resource killer game in my opinion. Stuck door? no problem. Pit? no problem. Chasm? why you carrying a rope bro--no problem. Ambushed? no problem...yawn. And some people hate paladins....

 

[Beoric]

No enemies have psionics in the adventure, so its not like I can use the tactic against the players

Escaping enemies can also warn their friends about tactics, although accounts can be garbled.

If spawned beneath, there's still call for a save to avoid - in modern D&D this would be a Reflex or DEX save; a reflexive jumping aside as the ground falls away beneath your feet.

Yes, ultimately it is a game, and gameplay may beat realism in these situations.

 

[Malrex]

I got this feedback from Dragonsfoot:
"The Will and the Way p48 wrote:
Dimensional Door: One of the two portals created must appear in front of the psionicist, one to four feet from his body. The portal by the psionicist is oriented to his body, so that if he is lying on his back, the door is actually a horizontal plane hovering above him. If the psionicist is so close to something that the door must appear in a solid object, the power fails.

A psionicist can only maintain one dimensional door at a time, so one character cant cage an opponent with such doors. However, two or more psionicists can cooperate to place their portals very close together. Remember, one of the portals will have to be right next to the initiating psionicist, so placing one next to an enemy may simply bring him right to you.

If a psionicist tries to place a dimensional door in a position that will force another character to fall or step through it unwillingly, the victim gets a saving throw versus paralyzation to step around the portal and avoid the trip.

The portal of a dimensional door has only one side. It has no thickness, and from its "back" side it does not exist. This means that a psionicist can't use the dimensional portal in front of him to screen missile attacks or to force an enemy in melee with him to be transported. The doorway works in both
directions, but each portal only exists on one side.

If the dimensional door is maintained over several rounds, both portals must remain in the exact spot where they first appeared. The psionicist can create a set of portals and then move away from the nearer one, as long as he continues to pay the maintenance cost. In a combat situation, up to five characters per round can pass through the door; if the party prepares by lining people up and going in order, as many as 10 per round can use the door."

Basically--having the first door facing/oriented to his body is what makes this ability more of a travel tool rather than a pit trap. Still possible to try and trick someone from entering and having the second door be wherever, but will be harder. And a save vs. paralyzation makes sense I think.

 

[The1True]

For the saving throw question, since I assume surviving enemies will pick up the players' tactics, how would the players feel about not getting a saving throw?

This!

Based on the 2e wording, you're looking at some savage and tiresome abuse by the player. Ask them if they'd like the same done to them.

Definitely the portal should be visible as a window (possibly blurry) onto wherever the portal exits. This should allow a Dex-based saving throw (Spells? I dunno, it's been a minute) to spot the trap and stop/dodge/grab a handhold.

That's a hell of a super power to tack onto a PC. I'm trying really hard not to edition-war this, but I'd forgotten how utterly unbalanced (and dreadfully over-complicated) stuff like psionics used to be. Also, they've nerfed the shit out of dim-door since then. You had to roll like a natural 00 at character creation to even get psionics from what I recall though, didn't you? Are you hand-waving that stiff technicality or maybe imposing an XP penalty?

 

[The1True]

The portal of a dimensional door has only one side. It has no thickness, and from its "back" side it does not exist.

Ah, there it is. Yeah, the psionicist would have to lure an opponent past the door and then find a way to push them backwards into the door. Somewhat less beardy.

You say there's no psionic monsters in your campaign. Really? No Mind Flayers? Intellect Devourers? Rhakshasa? Gith?

Don't hate me for this, but hear me out: In 3e they turned psionics into various character classes and modified the psionic power system so it closely matched spell casting rules (using a power pool rather than memorization). I've plaid a 3e Dark Sun campaign (very psi heavy and requiring a lot of porting 2e stuff over), it's pretty easy to convert this shit. It's a lot more balanced and doesn't require the player and DM to onboard a whole sub-game rules system. Power advances with character level, and most of this stuff has a corresponding spell in the Players Handbook, which helps ease rules disputes. It wouldn't take a lot to rip out the stuff you need from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Just throwing that out there...

 

[Malrex]

Thanks The1True...in 2e, there is a whole psionicist book and psionicst class, so going by that...although it has much more info than 1e, it still has some rusty edges in my opinion....so ya, no need to roll the 00 or whatever.

There is no psionic monsters in my campaign because Im mainly playtesting what we create for publishing...so yes..eventually there is (way down in the bottom of Coppercore) but right now, no.

 

[Beoric]

I got this feedback from Dragonsfoot:
"The Will and the Way p48 wrote:
... The portal by the psionicist is oriented to his body, so that if he is lying on his back, the door is actually a horizontal plane hovering above him. ...

If a psionicist tries to place a dimensional door in a position that will force another character to fall or step through it unwillingly, the victim gets a saving throw versus paralyzation to step around the portal and avoid the trip. ...

I don't see this language anywhere in the quote you posted, is this supposed to be RAW or RAI?

 

[Malrex]

I don't see this language anywhere in the quote you posted, is this supposed to be RAW or RAI?

I dont own the book....so I just copied and pasted what the poster posted...shrug