Me and the DMG

squeen said:
Another fella grappling with similar issues on his blog, but coming to a different (common) conclusion --- i.e. I'll just stick with OD&D.
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That was an interesting read. I think it really comes down to your players: If they're willing to bend with the loose rules you lay out, then everything's fine. But, the second you get a rules lawyer you're in trouble. And I know that comes out as a curse word for some people but most rules lawyers are just maintaining the verisimilitude of the game and respect the final word of the referee. I agree that in more crunchy versions of the game, a lawyer can turn into a real prick; wielding the book against the GM. But in looser versions, the referee has to keep careful track of their own rulings or else find themselves contradicting themselves and locked in disputes with confused/betrayed players. I personally prefer to just have the rules clearly laid out, but it's definitely fun to play with few or no books at all with a couple of players happy to work with what they get from you. I just think that breaks down as the players and their characters advance beyond basic play.
 
You are right. In a long running campaign, there is less threat from a rules-lawyer---however, my son for one, is always looking for advantage. He "remembers" the rules that help him and lets slide those that do not. I'm used to it, and it's fine. Keeps me on my toes.

It sounds like the author didn't have the time/patience or support network (e.g. K&KA) to work his way into being profficient with the AD&D differences from OD&D---and then his players bailed and went to 3e!
 
squeen said:
He "remembers" the rules that help him and lets slide those that do not. I'm used to it, and it's fine. Keeps me on my toes.
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Ha! My brother does that. He loves my 'yes and' style at lower levels but then he thumps me with my own rulings later. His characters become an amalgamation of baked-in bullshit by name level. Our rules disputes are bloody. He HATES 3e with a passion.
 
squeen said:
It sounds like the author didn't have the time/patience or support network (e.g. K&KA) to work his way into being profficient with the AD&D differences from OD&D---and then his players bailed and went to 3e!
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His experience was like mine, and pretty much everyone I ever played with. We always saw 1e as being a game that required houserules, and required certain other rules to be ignored, if it was going to be worth running. My willingness to ignore crappy and inconsistent rule elements came from my experience with 1e, and it is why I was able to take the good from 4e and run the kind of games I run with it.

After reading that article, and others on his blog, even though we never ran 0e and rarely ran any of the Basic variants, I think we were always really running a game with an 0e or Basic aesthetic using a subset of the 1e rules. And now I run something closer to a 0e/Basic game using 4e rules. Use the rules when they work, don't use them when they don't. The DM should use whatever works for him, and the players should be free to try whatever they want. Freedom and creativity are what the game is all about.

That may seem inconsistent with my frequent attempts to figure out how particular rules work, but it isn't. Lots of experience with houserules has taught me how important it is to understand what a rule does before you tinker with it, or get rid of it, or replace it.
 
Today's Grognardia touch on some similar themes.

Random Roll: DMG, p. 112

Page 112 of the Dungeon Masters Guide contains a number of interesting sections, each of which is worthy of highlighting and discussions. Fo...
grognardia.blogspot.com grognardia.blogspot.com
 
squeen said:
Re-posting something stumbling tiger posted over at K&KA that cracked me up---a rant against Gygax and AD&D by a 13-year old OD&D-er.

The curious case of the three-page rant in the old PHB • Collecting General • The Acaeum

This is a threadjack from Kosh's earlier thread discussing his (obviously) previously-owned PHB. When you see these scans, I think you'll agree that this
www.acaeum.com
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Weird how most of the commenters seem to seriously think the kid had anger management issues or was a sociopath. I just think he knew how funny he was.

But maybe the crazy comes out in the scans that were deleted.
 
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I don't know about "today's crowd", but for me it was nostolgic --- a distillation of youthful anger at change. Been there, done that.
 
Oh yeah! I've come a long way...

At least I don't call people "fart face" (anymore). ;P

I also love:

EGG: "[Chaotics] are prone to be troublesome and hurtful to the party, should be shunned, and disposed of."
The Response: "Let's face it shmucko, a well run chaotic can kill the party and end up with all the loot. CHAOTICS RULE, bimbo!"

Err, I guess that proves 'ol Gary wrong(?) then...

Although, we all have to admit---at 13 years old and a die-hard OD&Der reacting to the changes in the new AD&D Player Handbook in the year it was published---he was dead right about at least one thing at least:

"...psionics have sucked since their birth...". ​

Even Gygax had to eventually acknowledge that. So many things he calls out in unbridled teen angst have stuck in folks' craws over the decades (demihuman level limits, high level spells, WvAC,...)!

Also we get:

"I've seen better heads on a zit! In my world gods can be hurt, humiliated, tortured, etc., but NEVER killed, and my source for that is the ILIAD by Homer."​

Which I think @PrinceofNothing wrote a similar article about that last month on his blog...possibly leveraging the very same literary reference! (Although, I shouldn't pick on him...sounds like he's had a rough week. Sorry bud.)

Also, based on the zeitgeist of the late 70's midwest USA, I could have told you that this kid (Jim Perelman) was 90% likely to worship on the altar of Elric. That was ground-zero for chaotic-leaning/power-players, back in the day. It was Tolkien vs. Moorcock in terms of who you'd want to play D&D with (or avoid if you didn't want your party back-stabbed every other session). Law vs. Chaos instantiated! To this day, I still haven't been able to finish a single Elric book.

From the mouth of babes. Hilarious.
 
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squeen said:
Which I think @PrinceofNothing wrote a similar article about that last month on his blog...possibly leveraging the very same literary reference! (Although, I shouldn't pick on him...sounds like he's had a rough week. Sorry bud.)
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fucksakes. he just begged forgiveness for doing the same shit he ran @DangerousPuhson off this forum for doing. And now all his fans are like "don't apologize for calling people on their bullshit!" and I totally agree! Man, I read Prince's reviews and love them. I love the voice used to deliver them. I greatly enjoy the stuff he's written with @Malrex. I even had a good laugh at some of those old YDIS posts. It just sticks in my craw that he gets to do this and then turn around and persecute a guy for doing the same thing here. He's still provoking the long-absent DP with his forum sig for crying out loud.

Prince man, I'm a big fan which makes it that much shittier to watch you bully people and edit their posts here (myself included). Absolutely a forum should be policed and people who believe they have the right to free speech on a platform owned by somebody else are fucking delusional but ... bro ... come on.

Yeah, I'm jumping on the pigpile which is maybe a little weak but it seems like a solid opportunity to work out this festering resentment and go back to liking everyone here.
 
So you're saying DP is gone? And you actually miss him?

Although it's quieter around here, go re-read the first dozen pages of "The State of Post-OSR Content" and see if you still feel the same way.
 
Holy belated clap-back batman! Are you seriously dusting this one off? Because I'm game to dig into it this if you are... 🤷‍♂️
 
I mean, I don't want to debate, if that's what you're asking. I'm not even really sure what you are upset about. But DP is the only person on any forum I ever went to the trouble of googling "ASCII middle finger" in order to communicate with.
 
Absolutely not upset. Nor am I looking for a debate, I will roll over and show my furry tummy at the first sign of trouble. I come here for the good D&D vibes. I'm just saying if you're looking for clarification, by all means we can do this:

There are (or at this point maybe I should say were?) quite a few opinionated people who frequented this forum. One was more unpopular than the rest. Was his behaviour objectionable? Frequently. Was that balanced by many and constructive contributions to the discussions here? For the most part, I believe so. Was he baited into behaving objectionably as much as he baited others? Yes, yes he was dudes. Did he respond poorly to overbearing moderation. Definitely.

Dude kept things lively here and called out bullshit when he saw it (in an admittedly abrasive manner). The BlowSR very much needs that. Like him or hate him, things got TOO peaceful after his departure.

That came off like a eulogy. Thanks for the closure? :P
 
*tips 40 oz.*

It definitely has been quieter here recently. I didn't notice because all the edition fights had tired me out and I wasn't checking back that often this year. Hmmm... I certainly don't have the energy to debate people online more than 1 post a year, but it's worth thinking about. Maybe another contest in 2022?
 
Prince's contest was a resounding success, but he hosted it over on his blog. I would imagine if there's a repeat, he will continue to do so. Agree with him or not, you know you're subjecting yourself to a steady standard of judgment if you submit your work to such a contest.

I'd love to see more of peoples' dream-project heart-breakers here! Also, people were asking for writing advice for a while and getting responses from a whole range of well known OSR guest cameos. That was pretty cool.
 
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