The state of Post-OSR content

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I think the #BroOSR will probably give AD&D an even worse rep than it already enjoys.

Ay-ay-ay! If there's a way to screw things up, someone will find it. Why do we do this to ourselves?

Semtembrini talks about Jeffro at the beginning of the podcast he did with Prince---which I did enjoy.

On Gus' post, I see it as a very verbose attempt for the OSR to save-face on the fact that they grossly underestimated the value of elements of AD&D that they scoffed at and abandoned for "rule lite" alternatives---only to find out that rules-lite (and Trad play) has a very limited self-life.

The youngsters will now re-wind the clock, and make it clear that the reason they misunderstood and got OD&D/AD&D wrong was not THEIR fault (due to inexperience) but was, in fact, Gygax's (once again) for not explaining it well enough. All the dang self-satisfied grognards who blissfully ignored all the post-Gygax TSR/WotC blunders and the nu-OSR "innovations" to merrily continue playing AD&D, can now shut up about "understanding the spirit of the game" because NOW (DAMN IT!) we are finally going to codify these "classic-play procedures" and isolate all that stinkin' nerd culture once and for all...so that it can be bottled, dissected, and ultimately altered (once again) by this generation (the only one that matters, not all those dead ones!). This time the secret-sauce shall be canned (so that it may be properly disposed)!

Too cynical?
 
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Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
The BrOSR is half 3/10 tedious joke, half serious, unfortunately. If you're familiar with Jeffro Johnson, he's effectively the leader of a group who are mostly active on Twitter. A brief summary of what they see as the pillars of "correct" play are available here. I find some of their ideas interesting, but the way they express them much less interesting.
Wait, the post you linked to isn't meant to be a parody? Just, wow.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I just read Brenden's post Psuedo just linked and also his latest "The Confucius Maneuver". Coupled with Gus' post, I am seeing that there is a serious angst in the generation that came to D&D this millennium about the hobby's past.

Is it all stemming from the fact that Trad play got it so wrong, and the (original) OSR was such a blast of cold water to the head? Is the current generation still undergoing some sort of psychotherapy for that trauma---that their notion of D&D had morphed and was is some way disconnected from the original style of play? There was a sort of denial phase (classic play never existed), and now some sort of weird overly-scholar-ish dissection via the nom-du-jour of "proceduralism"? Is this game really that hard to learn, such that it needs to be diced up so finely?

All the while, the undercurrent of Gygax-as-villian lurks beneath the posts...because to allow otherwise, permits some sort of nebulous generational "other side" to "win" a one-sided argument? A mass Oedipus Complex?

(shakes head) This is all getting too weird. The joy of the just playing D&D is nowhere in any of this that I can see.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
If you're familiar with Jeffro Johnson, he's effectively the leader of a group who are mostly active on Twitter. A brief summary of what they see as the pillars of "correct" play are available here. I find some of their ideas interesting, but the way they express them much less interesting.
We've seen how this "leadership" role plays out in the OSR social-media space before...haven't we?

Has anyone tried pulling on "Jeffro's" hair to see if he's Zak wearing a latex mask?
 
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Pseudoephedrine

Should be playing D&D instead
Wait, the post you linked to isn't meant to be a parody? Just, wow.
I think Jeffro is half-joking. That is, I think he believes all of his points and positions, but adopts a consciously confrontational, and obnoxious personality in his interactions and writing because he thinks it's funny. I'd compare it to John Tarnowski's original Pundit persona, and expect it to go in a similar direction over time, towards the persona consuming the real person underneath.
 

Pseudoephedrine

Should be playing D&D instead
I just read Brenden's post Psuedo just linked and also his latest "The Confucius Maneuver". Coupled with Gus' post, I am seeing that there is a serious angst in the generation that came to D&D this millennium about the hobby's past.

Is it all stemming from the fact that Trad play got it so wrong, and the (original) OSR was such a blast of cold water to the head? Is the current generation still undergoing some sort of psychotherapy for that trauma---that their notion of D&D had morphed and was is some way disconnected from the original style of play? There was a sort of denial phase (classic play never existed), and now some sort of weird overly-scholar-ish dissection via the nom-du-jour of "proceduralism"? Is this game really that hard to learn, such that it needs to be diced up so finely?

All the while, the undercurrent of Gygax-as-villian lurks beneath the posts...because to allow otherwise, permits some sort of nebulous generational "other side" to "win" a one-sided argument? A mass Oedipus Complex?

(shakes head) This is all getting too weird. The joy of the just playing D&D is nowhere in any of this that I can see.
Gus started playing D&D in 1981, so I don't think the generational theory holds a lot of water. I started in 1991, and am also interested in Proceduralism's insights. Brendan and Marcia are newer, but are truthfully two different generations of gamers - Brendan started sometime in the late 2000s / very early 2010s. Marcia is in her early 20s right now and has been playing games for a few years as I understand it. There are many other people with widely varying amounts of experience involved in procedural work right now.

This is literally just what an intellectual revival looks like. People take up the past, irreverently analyse it, and then take it in new directions using the intellectual tools they're familiar with. I think part of the problem you're running into here is conflating many different takes and opinions held by many different people and then trying to propose some psychological explanation for the incoherence rather than realising it's an epistemic scope.

Very few "proceduralists" would, for example, claim that "classic play never existed". Brendan, Gus, Marcia, etc. would probably say something like "Trad playstyles typically discard or downplay procedures, this style eventually becomes encoded in texts, new generations picking up these texts don't have any access to the original procedures they were written in implicit contrast to, and thus don't think of these procedures" (Gus in fact does say basically this in his essay).
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Gus' quote (from Marx) which he took for the name of his new blog, is what always gets me thinking along these lines.

Clearly I am alone in my distaste for this intellectual skullduggery/wankery---I'll shut my yap. Enjoy. :)
 
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The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I used to know how to load and rewind one of those badboys.

I'm unfortunately missing the joke however...
 

tetramorph

A FreshHell to Contend With
Head-aching.

nuOSR I am familiar with as a term.

What does the "br" in brOSR even stand for?

Sorry to get stuck on a little thing. If I can get around this, I may be able to spend the mental energy learning more.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Head-aching.

nuOSR I am familiar with as a term.

What does the "br" in brOSR even stand for?

Sorry to get stuck on a little thing. If I can get around this, I may be able to spend the mental energy learning more.
My sense is it stands for the same thing as in "crypto bro".
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
It seemed pretty moderate and non-confrontational to me. Not sure how you can take issue with his post...
Oh no! I am not saying Psuedo said anything wrong in his reply...I just saw that you, Beroic & Johann were also into it (and I was not)...so I was bowing out of the Proceduralism discussion.

No harm, no foul from my point of view---I just thought the topic (in the linked posts) was idiotic

I do appreciate Pseudo making me aware of the latest insanity.

And sorry @Beoric, the picture-reference was lost on me too. Maybe---"someone is projecting"?
(FWIW, my Dad and I have always gotten along great. ;))
 
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