Hex Crawls
- Thread starter squeen
- Start date
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Ya..I'm still waiting for Irraditated to be posted on DrivethruRPG...just saying. Go Forth MAN!! DO IT!
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Edit: added above quote so people know what I'm replying to. Malrex snuck a reply in while I was writing, lol
Yeah I went and looked it up yesterday.
The only vote we have as consumers is where we put our money I guess. But I mean, it feels like all this cancellation just punishes the fans. The person who made the jackass comments is neither a creator nor the original publisher. Just a twit benefiting from the estate. I get it, he doesn't deserve our cash... or maybe more correctly doesn't really deserve anyone's attention, but at the same time it sucks that cool stuff is getting pulled off the market and honest creators are losing an income stream (however meager).
I dunno bros. Without getting into it, all I can say it it's a conundrum (for me anyway) and as much as I want to see justice done, I'm getting pretty exhausted with it all. It's like I keep wondering where favourite TV characters have gone and it turns out the actor who plays them couldn't keep their idiot views or hands to themselves and part of me doesn't care, I just want the cool, fictional character back, eh.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Thanks for the kick in the ass, man!
Melan
*eyeroll*
Apologies for dropping by so late. When I finish a long post, I sometimes need distance from the subject for a while, so a lot has already been said.
WRT @squeen 's distaste towards the form, there may be some deep philosophical disagreement there, but I still think I could have been misunderstood in some way. Hex-crawl content is not random noise. Like EOTB, I use random generation to create strange combinations and juxtapositions of ideas that would not come to me naturally, then use those basic ideas to come up with the actual encounters and sites which form the hex key. By the time they make it to play, they should have the following qualities:
Second, yes, this is an improvisation-heavy playstyle (altough you could construct a very detailed hex-crawl, at least on a rather small scale). This does not make it bullshitting. Improvisation rests on both flights of fancy and fitting improvised elements into a logical larger design (even if some of this is done post-game). Improvisation is a technique to exploit opportunities and happy accidents and go with the flow. It is not directionless.
Third, the numbered hex grid does serve a useful purpose. This was a literal "Eureca!" moment for me when I first encountered it in the early 2000s in Wilderlands of High Fantasy. Suddenly, after several years running wilderness games via bullshitting, and lots of fruitless detours, here was a useful, compact model for conceptualising game space in a way that is
WRT @squeen 's distaste towards the form, there may be some deep philosophical disagreement there, but I still think I could have been misunderstood in some way. Hex-crawl content is not random noise. Like EOTB, I use random generation to create strange combinations and juxtapositions of ideas that would not come to me naturally, then use those basic ideas to come up with the actual encounters and sites which form the hex key. By the time they make it to play, they should have the following qualities:
- basic plausibility ("this could exist in a fantasy world");
- for a good percentage of encounters, a sense of the fantastic ("this might seem strange even in a fantasy world");
- gameplay relevance ("the players can interact with this in a meaningful sense");
- something beyond what a "raw" random roll could create (i.e. more than "3 trolls with a +1 sword");
Second, yes, this is an improvisation-heavy playstyle (altough you could construct a very detailed hex-crawl, at least on a rather small scale). This does not make it bullshitting. Improvisation rests on both flights of fancy and fitting improvised elements into a logical larger design (even if some of this is done post-game). Improvisation is a technique to exploit opportunities and happy accidents and go with the flow. It is not directionless.
Third, the numbered hex grid does serve a useful purpose. This was a literal "Eureca!" moment for me when I first encountered it in the early 2000s in Wilderlands of High Fantasy. Suddenly, after several years running wilderness games via bullshitting, and lots of fruitless detours, here was a useful, compact model for conceptualising game space in a way that is
- GM-friendly (easy to wrap your mind around it, to manage a game, and to develop content for);
- player-transparent (putting a game board before the group to facilitate and encourage travel);
- gives a good framework to have a landscape dotted with ruins, monster dwellings, and centres of civilisation;
- ...and a good way to keep your setting ground-level and bottom-up instead of the top-down model which offers little assistance to run day-by-day-games.
Melan
*eyeroll*
Settembrini favours a continuous wilderness model instead of hexes. The original post outlining this approach is in German, but may be manageable via Google Translate. You can tell by the comment how long the hex-crawl post took to write.
My comment on Silveraxe's hexes-meet-hiking-map should be just the classic quote: "How can you trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders? The man can't even trust his own pants." Beyond that - and this is something I forgot to mention in the review - Silveraxe's weird hex referencing method made it actively hard to connect the text to on-map landmarks. The author messed with the formula, and got a messed up formula.
This is just stupid, sorry. The only reason it works - kinda, sorta - is because the module area is 8x5 hexes and there is limited room for confusion. My hex map sheets tend to be 26x17, a quarter of the Wilderlands standard. Try this method to find something on those! Hell, try sequential keying at that scale with approximately one location per six hexes, then try to find keyed locations 23, 72, and 140 back on that map. This is why XX,YY coordinates are a good standard.
I like Hex coordinates and for more on Melans how to Hexcrawl see his recent Picaresque RPG! The DM section in that struck me as heavily influenced/ a precursor to this article.
Next, I like the statment that improv is not bullshitting. I would also counter by saying what is running or playing RPGs.
It is play, surely these things (improv) are connected in a fashion its just a question of when the spur of invention occurs.
Last, you wrote in German too? Trilingual is impressive!
Next, I like the statment that improv is not bullshitting. I would also counter by saying what is running or playing RPGs.
It is play, surely these things (improv) are connected in a fashion its just a question of when the spur of invention occurs.
Last, you wrote in German too? Trilingual is impressive!
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I good defense of the system @Melan. Despite my seeming ignorance, I did in fact understand that your system was a more structured one...and not purely procedural random acts. That said, I do think that the hex-crawling mechanics can lean towards an nearly autonomous engine for content creation. My protests were aimed towards that style, but perhaps that's only a outlier abuse.
I also take your point about the coordinates. The reverse-mapping (key to map) can be more complicated without them unless there is some effort to localize it. I'll have to ponder that a bit....because I do find both the coordinates on the border and the little numbers in each hex visually cumbersome (that's actually putting it mildly---I think they are clunky and butt ugly!).
We are also in agreement that improvisation is essential for a DM---in precisely the manner you stated. However, there's an upper limit in my mind. Between-game creative-prep is the foundation on which to improvise (in-game) unless you are a genius.
I thank you and Settembrini for giving me the language to express the heart of the matter---although I'll have to be careful to make sure I am "translating" it correctly. Continuous vs Discrete. That's what it comes down to for me. Despite its "simplicity" and "versatility", the latter evokes a 1980's video game to me in a negative way. I'll try for a latter post that makes a coherent case in favor of the Continuous model.
I also take your point about the coordinates. The reverse-mapping (key to map) can be more complicated without them unless there is some effort to localize it. I'll have to ponder that a bit....because I do find both the coordinates on the border and the little numbers in each hex visually cumbersome (that's actually putting it mildly---I think they are clunky and butt ugly!).
We are also in agreement that improvisation is essential for a DM---in precisely the manner you stated. However, there's an upper limit in my mind. Between-game creative-prep is the foundation on which to improvise (in-game) unless you are a genius.
I thank you and Settembrini for giving me the language to express the heart of the matter---although I'll have to be careful to make sure I am "translating" it correctly. Continuous vs Discrete. That's what it comes down to for me. Despite its "simplicity" and "versatility", the latter evokes a 1980's video game to me in a negative way. I'll try for a latter post that makes a coherent case in favor of the Continuous model.
Pseudoephedrine
Should be playing D&D instead
For coordinates, I use letters going along the short axis, and two numbers along the long axis of the map. A00 is the top left of my landscape oriented maps. I just repeat this across maps and then number the maps with Roman numerals, so "I C18" can be read pretty easily to figure out where things are. It seems fairly straightforward to key things that way.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I wish you could do this in Worldographer.
robertsconley
Should be playing D&D instead
Nothing wrong with being a fan of the Wilderlands. The father was a decent person. The son however has issues along with some of the grandsons.
The whole reason for both Points of Light and later Blackmarsh to make all that more approachable and affordable.
The next iteration I working on is designed around DriveThruRPG 12" by 18" poster map. The first one will combine Blackmarsh, Southland, the Wild North and new material into a four map set. Then I will make additional installments. The below is my working copy of the four maps combined.
It is part of a much larger map that I will crop other releases out of. The reason it looks great is because of the hundreds of 5 mile hexes in the master map.
robertsconley
Should be playing D&D instead
Glad you are enjoying them.
robertsconley
Should be playing D&D instead
It wasn't pleasant to deal with. As I stated in my post, I talked to Bob II first, and afterwards the other licensees second. At the end of the day I wasn't going to do business with either Bledsaws. Also I knew my sudden absence would be noticed in the hobby and industry so prepared a post. After I talked to the licensees, it quickly became public and so I posted what happened. It didn't surprise me that it became public after talking to the other licensees as from what I knew personally they would not react well to somebody spreading anti-Semitism material. Then Bob II wrote a long post and that as they say was definitely that.
I still track the royalties and at the current rate of sales it looks like what the Bledsaws owe me will be settled by late 2022 early 2023. By then I will have my original stuff based off Points of Light/Blackmarsh posted. Not what I wanted after having been able to work with the Wilderlands direct but since things haven't changed with the Bledsaws it what it has to be I guess.
The silver lining is that I laid the ground work over a decade by noting what in the Majestic Wilderlands was original to me and what was Judges Guild stuff. I wasn't expecting a license back then to use the material so prepared accordingly.
Melan
*eyeroll*
Our GM in an ongoing online Helvéczia campaign uses it a lot. It is apparently an excellent mapper, and the results certainly look nice (especially with that painted icon set). Do note, however, that the EULA only allows you to use the icons bundled with the app on a strictly non-commercial basis.
Our GM in an ongoing online Helvéczia campaign uses it a lot. It is apparently an excellent mapper, and the results certainly look nice (especially with that painted icon set). Do note, however, that the EULA only allows you to use the icons bundled with the app on a strictly non-commercial basis.
I really like using it to create the hex map and key on it directly. That way I can run the game through the program by mousing over, it works well as a DM tool and you are right it makes pretty things, the UI seems more intuitive than worldogropher IMO.
That sucks, I wonder what are the best tile sets that use creative commons or let you sell your work
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
I love Hex Kit as well, very easy to use and the tilesets look great. Somebody put out a tileset for use in published products on Drivethru, I don't remember the name though...