squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Just curious --- why not just key the location (hex?) and determine the treasure and info one can find. In short, why the tables?
Hex Crawls
- Thread starter squeen
- Start date
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Sure. And that's why I said, use the index to deliberately lay hooks etc. My players like to roll their own hoard and sometimes I let 'em. Rolling dice is fun.
If room 1,1 has a communal area with a new faction and interesting NPC's; Room 3,2 has a haunted castle sinking into a lake; and room 2,3 bores down into a multi-level dungeon then sure, why not. That map is deliberately inflammatory and NOT what people have been saying to you. There's a difference between a 30x30' room and a 3 mi hex, and you know it dude. Don't be that guy.
Moving on.
Moving on. I signed on with the intent of asking if you'd like to present one of your wilderness areas as a counterpoint rather than chipping away at the rest of us. I would be interested to see how you populate and run your ideal wilderness. I'm taking your statement that people misinterpret your forum writing style in good faith here...
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Sander-who?
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
It was not intend to anger, mock, or belittle anyone. Really. Just reflect what I was hearing about hex-crawls through a new lens in order to give a different perspective for discussion. Anger comes as a unexpected surprise---I had expected amusement and hoped for a light bulb. In this case, I think that reaction says more about the reader than it does me. Perhaps a beverage of your own choosing would be in order?
I will use it to make a coherent point, and also post an alternate map...in a bit. I just want to wait and let others have a chance to absorb it and maybe chime in.
EOTB
So ... slow work day? Every day?
True, but this gets back to starting with random terrain generation - if the DM determines terrain by fiat, the limits of the DM's knowledge on the subject further reduced by what happens to be in their mind at the time pen hits paper forms the output.
For some, that's still going to produce an amazing overland map. I happen to know that for me, it will produce a lot of maps that aren't all that much different from each other in a way that seems natural (and it's also a slower process). Whereas if I randomly generate terrain and tweak I will be surprised as a DM by what comes out. And it will have those details I don't see (because I didn't make it from the ground up) that players can see and exploit. YMMV.
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Makes the DM have fun in the game too then and keeps them on their toes...got it!
Sorta reminds me of that contest we did with randomly generated names for the adventure title.
I like doing that sort of thing in adventures--finding info that could potentially lead to further adventure. I did that in Nevermore Mines with a small diary entry that could be found that could lead to our encounter adventure The Covey.
I'm really big on rumors/clues and that sort of thing to make the world seem bigger as they can lead to different things. I could see how it could be easily incorporated into a hexcrawl with your index idea or just in general. I guess I got the impression that exploration is King with hexcrawls and that was the main goal.
So if PCs enter a hex, and you have it labeled as 'ruined tower' and have some rough notes on it.....and the PCs decide to enter it for whatever randomly, are you all just wingin it (a dungeon) until the next session or do you have most of the stuff fleshed out? Or are the players more interested in just jotting down the note that there is a ruined tower here and moves on to the next hex? I guess that's the part that's not really clicking for me.
EOTB
So ... slow work day? Every day?
No one has time to fully flesh out everything. I'd go back to the judges guild model - I'll guarantee that Bob Bledsaw did not start play with play session-ready adventures in all of those hexes. You have an idea with an extra paragraph or two of rough notes. (I also keep a stock of small to mid-sized dungeon/cavern/building maps from RPG products I otherwise didn't like, to grab on the fly).
This allows the players to tell you where they want the detail, before you add the fine detail. But for big picture campaign world movement, all you need are the rough notes.
Tribe of hobgoblins here, population increasing quickly. New leader who wants to raid the surrounding area will come into power on <campaign date>. Leader is smart/dull/vain/foolish/whatever. When he begins raiding his targets will be X/date, Y/date, Z/date. Will take control of the pass between location A and B at <date>
Obviously this is so vanilla to be boring. Usually I'll also have something indiana jones to mix in with the west point. But you don't really need a lot of detail until the PCs want to involve themselves.
Unless the PCs are at the beginning of a marathon 12 hour session (odds are essentially zero) you'll have time between sessions to detail out what they want to engage with.
This allows the players to tell you where they want the detail, before you add the fine detail. But for big picture campaign world movement, all you need are the rough notes.
Tribe of hobgoblins here, population increasing quickly. New leader who wants to raid the surrounding area will come into power on <campaign date>. Leader is smart/dull/vain/foolish/whatever. When he begins raiding his targets will be X/date, Y/date, Z/date. Will take control of the pass between location A and B at <date>
Obviously this is so vanilla to be boring. Usually I'll also have something indiana jones to mix in with the west point. But you don't really need a lot of detail until the PCs want to involve themselves.
Unless the PCs are at the beginning of a marathon 12 hour session (odds are essentially zero) you'll have time between sessions to detail out what they want to engage with.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Everyone I have met who needs everything broken out
They die the DM death of burnout and / or existential unhappiness
Or the write novels and streamline the fun by removing humans
Does not matter hexes or no
The alternative is to not have a campaign bit rather one shots/ dungeon only. You can get obsesive or fixed liminal spaces. Many play that way and it keeps those DMs happy.
Its necessary to leave holes with campaigns
They die the DM death of burnout and / or existential unhappiness
Or the write novels and streamline the fun by removing humans
Does not matter hexes or no
The alternative is to not have a campaign bit rather one shots/ dungeon only. You can get obsesive or fixed liminal spaces. Many play that way and it keeps those DMs happy.
Its necessary to leave holes with campaigns
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TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Hexes allow for mapping, planning out and stocking a region effectively, measuring travel times & distances, and assessing the PCs' locations with ease. A hex is a manageable unit of space.
Actual factual, I started running this campaign without hexes in the early days. I just used a map and tried to keep track of where the players and all the adventure sites were. It broke down completely as soon as they left the river. It was more randomized, because it was impossible to keep track of locations and travel distances accurately. When I learned about hexcrawls it solved all my problems. That was 10 years ago!
No offense felt man, don't worry.
The campaign is based on exploring the unknown wilderness. The first rumour was in town (literally "the forbidden wilderness is over there") and all the other information has been learned out in the wilderness itself. I told the players we were doing a wilderness game, and they said it sounded fun. They created characters who had some degree of backstory (1-2 sentences) which was enough to give them reasons to go exploring.
Since then, the game has more or less run itself. They go out into the wilderness looking for something: sometimes they find it, sometimes they get lost and get into trouble. The players like to fight monsters & get treasure, but they also love to forge relationships with local NPCs and factions, so sometimes it feels like Star Trek, which is cool too. They get to focus on the things they're interested in - which I assumed was kind of the normal way to play, if the DM has developed a world with enough stuff to do. They often run into things they haven't heard of and weren't looking for, usually on the way to something else. This is a feature.
My brother has said he finds the game almost overwhelming, because there are so many things he wants to do and see that sound cool (a huge list of rumours, hooks and clues). I dunno about you but I consider this high praise.
But I'm not sure any of that relates to hexes particularly.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Thank you. I asked the question poorly. I'll try to point out the burr in my hex-saddle in a future post.
Yes. I don't use wildness hexes the same way you do, but we have achieved the same end. If I had any sense, I would just leave it at that and let this board go back on silent mode....but I won't (maybe).
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
I'm genuinely looking forward to this. Your local-area maps look really good and I'm wondering if your wide-area maps compel me the same way that Terrible's awesome hexes do.
You are definitely fishing for a provocative reaction with that map, sir. J'Accuse! The angry emoji was the closest of the five available reactions; don't overthink this
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
This, but I think part of the iconic West Marches procedure was getting a sense from the players of where they were headed in the upcoming session, so there's usually an opportunity to flesh a few things out more.
Even if you don't have an opportunity to discuss or gauge the players' future plans, unless they make an unexpected lunge (say sprinting down a fast-movement corridor like a road or river), you should be able to predict how many hexes they'll be able to move in an upcoming session and prep whatever is in that manageable radius at least to the degree that play will be satisfactory (i.e. the defender of the mysterious grove, guards of the castle gate, ground floor of the multilevel dungeon etc.) until more can be fleshed out for the following session.
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
I have put enough effort into this convo, I gotta do a huge blog about this and get the conversation going. But also, no promises.
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Finally asking the right questions.
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
So out of curiosity, how would you go about publishing a hex-crawl?
Would people just expect just the rough notes?
Or random terrain/npc/situations/encounter tables?
Would a few things be fully fleshed out?
Wondering if TS's review of Trilemma would of made that product a little bit better by having those short dungeon areas scattered on a hex (and maybe it does) and could that be considered a hex crawl with some other rough notes scrawled in?
Would people just expect just the rough notes?
Or random terrain/npc/situations/encounter tables?
Would a few things be fully fleshed out?
Wondering if TS's review of Trilemma would of made that product a little bit better by having those short dungeon areas scattered on a hex (and maybe it does) and could that be considered a hex crawl with some other rough notes scrawled in?