Get ready to die!

Johann

*eyeroll*
In my quest to become a Killer DM, which I blogged about for awhile here, I focused on overcoming my deeply ingrained habit to pull my punches as a DM. I largely overlooked a closely correlated aspect: getting the players onboard for a lethal game.

Eero Tuovinen has been planning an essay entitled "The Sacrament of Death" on his blog. We have discussed the yet-to-be-written essay on this board here, but a recent comment on Eero's blog has prompted me to lay out my own thoughts.

The following steps to get the players' buy-in for their characters' slaughter are largely born out of six years worth of experience of running a relentlessly lethal campaign (about 150 sessions, over 80 deaths, and 2 TPKs so far).

1. Prepare

Make it clear at the outset that you are going to run a deadly campaign.

To underline your intent, point out any intrinsically lethal features of the rules set (e.g. the fragility of 1st-level characters and the presence of save-or-die effects in older versions of D&D) or any former campaigns with a high casualty rate.

Words are cheap, though, especially since many DMs claim to be merciless, when they are, in fact, fudging to save characters (perhaps after strategically killing a character right at the start to instill fear in their players).

Also, discuss the value - I even say necessity, at least regarding a certain brand of D&D - in some detail. Some talking points:

Without failure, there can be no real victory.
Looming failure often brings out the best in a team and fosters bonding.
Fantasy fiction and fantasy movies are full of tragic deaths.
The death of a fictional character is often more memorable than the retirement.

2. Habituate

Run a consistently challenging and deadly campaign to ensure lots and lots of PC deaths, so players get used to it. I personally recommend a suitably lethal set of rules, hard challenges (encounter levels, my ass), unflinching DMing, and even shock tactics like running a 'character funnel' as per DCC.

First, misery needs company and character death often stings, so not being the only one to experience it helps.

Secondly, the players will learn first-hand the value of character death (see point 1 above).

3. Grieve

I largely overlooked this aspect as both a GM and a player, but it is important to not skip the aftermath of a death and roll up a new character as fast as possible. This approach only seems attractive to stop the pain … until one rolls up average abilities, as is wont to happen.

Detail the actual death. This is not about providing gruesome details to highlight the brutality of a monster or your merciless world, but about depicting an important moment - but not the last, see below - in a character's story. Ask your player for his character's last words, for instance, as most deadly blows or fatal falls need not be portrayed as beheadings, splatterings-on-impact etc.

More importantly, properly conclude the character's story, i.e. give room to the PCs' and NPCs' reactions and the death's aftermath (retrieving and laying out the body as well as the burial, last will, and legacy of the deceased etc.).

The following words by Sami Koponen prompted me to write this essay:

"If the character is respected and her story is told to the end (What happens to her corpse? What about her family? How does the incident change the other characters?), I recuperate a lot faster."

4. Celebrate

Periodically reinforce everyone's understanding of the value of character death (as per point 1 above) to foster acceptance and perhaps even enjoyment. There are plenty of fictional stories which would be diminished by a happy ending.

Furthermore, it is beneficial to cultivate the right attitude for this type of gaming, i.e. acknowledging and praising, at the table, risk-taking and sportsmanship. Players being overly cautious for fear of losing a character not only slow down the game, but may even diminish it.

Eero Tuovinen rejects "optimizing at the expense of a robust and compelling fiction", e.g. by "swinging some sort of a pole-marmoset-flint knife combo platter in a customized effort to keep my character safe":

"[T]o me the ideal of beautiful and powerful play in an organically developing Gamist game with heavy focus on positioning, such as this style of D&D, is to grasp with determination at a subject matter and challenge proposition that you find compelling; the question is not whether you could win at a GM's obstacle course by stacking rules and positioning to your favour, the question is whether you can triumph against a challenge chosen and internalized by yourself within the fictional constraints, partially unspoken, that determine whether your play is petty or compelling. Not whether you can build a knight that can slay a dragon, but whether a knight as per your understanding of knighthood can slay a dragon."

(Edited to add that Eero has outlined some of his ideas for the essay in the comments on his blog here. I'm not trying to copy him or beat him to the punch.)
 
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TerribleSorcery

Should be playing D&D instead
Is your buddy ever going to write this? I don't remember the last time a blog post was led up with this much hype!

In the mean time, a few small things to say about PC death in D&D:
1 - Sack up, princess! It's a game!
2 - I suspect this may be a temperamental thing. I think it's awesome when my characters die, unless the circumstances are aggressively lame. My first character, all the way back in 1994, died in the 2nd session of my very first game and I was hooked.
3 - Anthony Huso already wrote the seminal article on PC death (of those not already written by Jeff Rients): https://www.thebluebard.com/post/handling-character-death
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I switched groups in 1979 and was shocked when my 1st PC died on his very first outing in the dungeon with the new group.
I too was hooked.

(I also learn to RUN!)
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
Article: How to Get Your Players On-Board With A Lethal Campaign
by DangerousPuhson

Ask your players the incredibly straightforward question about whether or not they would be cool playing in a game with high lethality.

The End.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Article: How to Get Your Players On-Board With A Lethal Campaign
by DangerousPuhson

Ask your players the incredibly straightforward question about whether or not they would be cool playing in a game with high lethality.

The End.
I agree with this. You only need all the hand-holding if your players aren't on board, in which case why are you doing it?

It should go without saying that this conversation should be had before they generate their lovingly created PCs with three pages of backstory. If you say, "Bring a first level character. Don't get too attached to it. You might want to roll up a couple of replacements," that generally sets the right tone.

Also, you can have more than one campaign going, of varying degrees of lethality, with the same players. So those who are lukewarm on the idea aren't committed to playing that way the whole time.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I keep having this conversation with my players. Everyone's onboard; we miss those oldschool feelz.

But then they get attached to their characters. I get attached to their characters. As I said before, I quit fudging on their behalves, but we still tend to play in magic-rich environments, so there's always a cleric somewhere to tape them back together if they want.
The will is weak.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
But then they get attached to their characters. I get attached to their characters. As I said before, I quit fudging on their behalves, but we still tend to play in magic-rich environments, so there's always a cleric somewhere to tape them back together if they want.
The will is weak.
By the time they get attached to their characters, the characters usually have a couple of levels and more durable, AND they are doing different things that are often less risky than dungeon delving, AND as you mentioned they have ready access to healing (and resurrection if necessary). At which point it is a different game, where its hard to permanently kill the party without forcing them onto some sort of railroad. I think this naturally happens in a sandbox with players old enough to be in games outside the dungeon, although maybe less so with pre-1e systems.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Frequent death is definitely a low-level experience. I see nothing wrong with what The1True says about methods to circumvent it as the party's resources grow. Dying in the 1-3 level area sets a tone for caution moving forwards.

I do however enforce the house rule that raise dead causes the loss of 1d2 levels...and it's usually a major PITA finding someone willing to request/expend divine favor to pull it off---it's expensive if bought (5,000-10,000 gp) and if not, usually involves some sort of scavenger hunt or major boon.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Yeah. Con too. But also 1d2 levels, that way, it's just not worth it on low level characters...and even high-level ones are scared.
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
Oh yeeah, I forgot about that point of Con.

Fuck.
That.
I forget it too, but I think I actually kinda like it.

It's a straightforward, elegant penalty for dying that weakens ever-so-slightly without being intrusive (like something that causes revived players to look like a corpse, or whatever). I think I might just appropriate it for my 5e games at some point.

Not the system shock though.

Fuck.
That.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
1st edition has this handled. Being raised from the dead costs a point of CON (unlike levels, which you can always make back). And of course there's that often-ignored system shock check.
I'm not sure I would classify "only able to be resurrected a handful of times" as particularly lethal.
 

Johann

*eyeroll*
Is your buddy ever going to write this? I don't remember the last time a blog post was led up with this much hype!
[...]
3 - Anthony Huso already wrote the seminal article on PC death (of those not already written by Jeff Rients): https://www.thebluebard.com/post/handling-character-death
Well, the hype's on me because it's a topic near and dear to my heart. 😊 Eero merely asked his readers which topic they'd like to see next on his blog. He said it would take months and has provided lots of cool essays, so I'm confident he'll get around to it.

Anthony Huso's essay was a great read - thanks! Gotta explore his blog now... Anyway, I especially liked his technique of periodically having the players run other characters (e.g. evil NPCs) to foster identification / investement regarding the world (rather than individual PCs).
 

Johann

*eyeroll*
Ask your players the incredibly straightforward question about whether or not they would be cool playing in a game with high lethality.
You are 100% right and I hope my little essay did not come across as patronizing. I'm not suggesting that you treat your players as if they don't know what they want and manipulate them for their own good. Talk to them, by all means.

Sometimes, though, a good thing (losing ten pounds, switching the setter from position 3 to 2 in an amateur volleyball team etc.) may entail hardship, at least for awhile or for some people. I think it's worthwhile to think about how to motivate yourself and your friends to stick it out or adapt in order to reap the rewards.

Though it is clearly a matter of taste, I can say for myself that playing and running a lethal D&D game is a most rewarding experience. Whether you're a player or the DM, just about every session is exciting because you really don't know how it will all turn out, who will live and who will die. Good times!

[Edited to delete a snarky comment.]
 
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The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Though it is clearly a matter of taste, I can say for myself that playing and running a lethal D&D game is a most rewarding experience. Whether you're a player or the DM, just about every session is exciting because you really don't know how it will all turn out, who will live and who will die. Good times!
This combined with:

Frequent death is definitely a low-level experience.
May be why a lot of you guys prefer low level campaigns and burn out before you hit the super hero levels? It sounds exciting (which is probably why my group keeps trying to make it happen), but I wonder if maybe it leads to a whipped-player neurosis which is reducing the pleasure of high-level play for you? -Like if your PC does somehow miraculously make it through the 3-5 lvl funnel you end up paranoid and overly cautious which slows down the (already complex) high level play?
another risk might be that you get addicted to the thrill of low-level mortality which either wears off as your character advances or, as above, turns into stress as you actually start to care about your character.
Strategies like devising an epic death (I'm thinking of that Northlands Saga AP from Frog God as an excellent example, where you write a viking poem to bellow in your final moments and then go out in a berserk fury as the Valkyrs descend) are probably a good way of managing higher-level angst as Johann mentioned with point 4. Maybe making that a part of character creation makes it a thing to look forward to rather than to fear.


And before we get mired in the character creation debate again, I'm thinking now of creation as an evolving process that should ramp up after that funnel. ...Which is going to branch off into another discussion...
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
...Which is going to branch off into another discussion...
ech, finding our old discussion on character backstory led WAY back into the depths of some pretty fraught threads, so I'm going to just throw it down here: What about Backstory as chievos or class abilities that you earn at certain levels like:

Parentage: Immediate family that can be relied on for shelter or advice.
Inheritance: A legacy (monetary, property or otherwise) that can now be accessed.
Contacts: A small number of pre-existing contacts in the vicinity of your home.
Backstory: Important formative event(s) that may inform future decisions/events.
Death: Glorious/Heroic/Spectacular/Tragic/Ignominious/Macabre/Grizzly/Unlikely etc.

They can be rolled for or written up by the player, each coming with one or two small advantages. (I'm just spitballing here; some of the above probably are just subcategories of other things. There could even be degrees of backstory. Like if you put off committing your inheritance to a higher level; you can roll on a more rarified table...

It's not like these things didn't exist in your PC's life before, they just weren't important to the story yet...

Just throwing it out there...
 
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