General Discussion

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
If wanting peace over war, a smaller more transparent government, more personal autonomy from the state, and a return to blind justice enforced without political motives makes a person a fascist, then so be it.

The word has lost all of its original meaning and important historical context. It is now just a slur thrown around by the emotionally traumatized. Who traumatized them, you ask?

GpikWkxWMAAhzMi.jpeg

Peace all. I concede. I will not change minds here & will again retreat into silence after this post.

However, if you are interested, the WEF is not the only international "think tank". For example, have a look at the Atlantic Council (9 former heads of the CIA). Mike Benz is a anti-censorship advocate who lays out the various interconnected bureaucratic international agencies and how they assert soft-power globally for the various state departments. He doesn't even argue they shouldn't being do it, he just gives you a peak under the hood and brings receipts.

Alternatively and less modern, the Marty Maid podcast (Spotify) is a nice history-as-narrative listen. There is an excellent six-part series, produced in 2015, called "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem" that begins at the end of the 19th century and traces through the events of the first-half of the 20th century around the founding of modern Israel. It is very sympathetic to both the Jews AND the Arabs, and more fascinatingly it shows how the British empire operated in it's dealing with both--a primer on how governments manage empires. Record 9 years before the current situation in Gaza, it is illuminating and sometimes prescient---but still only one man's take.

I have 10 hours of commute each week and have finally switch off listening to NPR on FM radio after 25 years. Long-form podcasts have opened up a lot of new info for my brain to soak up. As a result, I repeat things I have heard (and may or may not believe--I cannot check hardly any of the data first-hand). When it goes against the popular narratives, people become "concern for me" and assume I have been mislead. It's an odd phenomena, to be sure. Asking questions is now bad? Thinking different is a crime? Growing up, the mantra of the Boomer counter-culture was "Think for yourself, and question authority". Not anymore? (when they've become the authorities)

Seriously folks. I've been "on-line" since 1980 (300 baud!). Do you really think I am some tech-ignorant Boomer that's been hyponotized by the evil internet and that you are yourselves somehow the only ones immune? When I ask questions or say things that go against the common narrative, do you really think they are without some thought and only surface-layer deep---parroting words my podcast masters have put into my brain unfiltered?

Where were you when we protested Bush Sr.'s invasion of Iraq? Were you protesting globalism and the WTO in the 90's when Clinton sent in Delta force undercover to frame the protestors? Did you support Occupy Wall Street? The Tea Party? These were the populist movements of their day. Today it's MAGA/MAHA: both of which are far bigger than just any single man (Trump/RJK Jr/Elon). Unelected bureaucrats that impinge on your rights, operate in the shadows (classified! need-to-know! plausible-deniability!), manipulate the media, and enrich themselves and corporate-donors via corruption are the norm throughout history. Self-governments with constitutional limits on governmental power are the rare (beautiful) exceptions. Truly, we've been swimming in propaganda and lies our entire lives---it's like water, so ubiquitous you hardly notice it. Don't hate me for pointing it out. The ones shouting you down with mindless slurs for asking questions are the real totalitarians (i.e. party loyalists).

Insane debt. Endless wars (or even WWIII). Chronic disease and shorter life-expectancy (for the masses). Reduced standard of living (for the masses). Intentional cultural destruction. Forced Vaccination. De-population. I'm not on board with any of that.

Adieu (lowers the Cone of Silence)
 
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DangerousPuhson

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I seldom pay Canadian politics any mind, but a few weeks ago I listen to an hour-long podcast with Maxime Bernier, a longtime Canadian politician who is running for PM as the People's Party of Canada (PPC) candidate. They are the points he raised (except #1, that was me).
Dammit squeen, this is your problem. If you had any sane sense of how things work, you'd not have taken anything Bernier says seriously. The PPC is a fringe party of ultra-right-wingers and verifiable bigots; they're the Proud Boys of Canadian politics. The fact the you even considered them a valid source of anything proves that you are so deep into the echo chamber that even your attempts to broaden internationally are stuck in the echo chamber.

Seriously, who pointed you to them? Never trust that source for anything ever again. It's like suggesting Mein Kampf as a primary research source. I don't say this as a Leftist trying to keep you away from the "the truth"; I say this as someone who can literally watch you being manipulated in real time, and it breaks my heart.

Asking questions is now bad? Thinking different is a crime?
...
When I ask questions or say things that go against the common narrative, do you really think they are without some thought and only surface-layer deep---parroting words my podcast masters have put into my brain unfiltered?
...
Also, not a single one of those points were an original idea of mine.
Problem is, you *don't* ask questions and think different. You follow instructions and listen to pundits and podcasters with agendas. You also vote against the best interests of everyone else in the country. A person who is genuinely curious doesn't take action until they have clarity - you, conversely, do not (see "Exhibit A" previous). You literally just said that the points you posted came from somewhere else - so which is it squeen, are you freethinking, or do your thoughts come from somewhere else?

Peace all. I concede. I will not change minds here & will again retreat into silence after this post.
The asylum patient will always have a hard time convincing the nurse that the giant rabbit standing in the corner is real.
 

DangerousPuhson

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Insane debt. Endless wars (or even WWIII). Chronic disease and shorter life-expectancy (for the masses). Reduced standard of living (for the masses). Intentional cultural destruction. Forced Vaccination. De-population. I'm not on board with any of that.
Yet you support that party that is doing it live, in front of your face. If you like internet reading so much, why don't you check out Project 2025, and let us all know how you feel about that one?

I found a good Reddit list of Trump's activity in his first 100 days of his second term (it's not even a complete list; there'd be no space for it). The Republicans have literally done all of this within the last 3 months:

Pardons all violent Jan 6th criminals

2 Israeli ceasefires collapse

Ukrainian ceasefire collapse/fail to launch

War with houthis/ signal gate 1.0 and 2.0

Lets houthis shoot down 10+ reaper drones

Threatens invasion of partner countries/alienates allies (Greenland, Canada, Mexico and Panama)

Threatens war with Iran

Threatens NATO alliance

Does Russia’s bidding against Ukraine/propaganda, pulling aid, intel, capitulation to land demands

Mark Fogal released for Russian cyber criminal

Dismantles foreign cyber crime defense

Multiple aviation accidents/blames DEI

DEI historical removals like Jackie Robinson/ Enola gay

Releases millions of gallons of water in CA to wrong place after fires

Addresses none of deadly tornadoes in central plains (busy winning his own golf tournament)

Markets down 10-20% / worse month since depression/market manipulation

Blows up his own trade deals and erases trillions from the market with dollar down 9%

Giant tariff tax / global trade war / *no tariffs on Russia

Crypto scams / Trump and Melania coins

Pardons Silk Road creator and crypto crooks

US boycotts/travel warnings/prolonged detainment

Froze NIH research grants and preventing federally funded scientists from travelling or talking about their work.

Gutted USAID wasting billions in aid and costing lives

Cuts funding to public media like npr + pbs

Took over Kennedy center

Hangs mug shot in White House

Let’s elons kid put a booger on resolute desk

Doge chainsaw to fed agencies with no DOD cuts and an actual increase in federal spending /mass “DEI firings”

Stops loans and programs like farm to school

Invites dictators to the White House

Loss of 1st and 5th amendment rights/deporting for opinions/due process/deporting homegrown criminals

El salvadorian detention camps/ Guantanamo bay failure

Threatens loss of 14th amendment - birthright citizenship

Threatens 16th amendment rights- congress setting tax rules

Threatens 19th amendment - save act/women’s voting rights

Threatens 22nd amendment - 3rd term

Weaponizes justice department/ Tesla vandalism = terrorism/ Jan 6 revenge

Measles + bird flu

Wasted 30k real eggs on Easter

F-47 jet and proposals for his image on currency, Rushmore, airport naming

Canceled Ebola prevention funding

Eliminates FDA regulations on food

Opens federal forests for logging and opens protected ocean space for fishing/drilling

White House = Tesla dealership

Golf trips EVERY weekend and some weekdays

Wastes millions attending Super Bowl, NASCAR, and ufc events

Trump Gaza /wants to create golden idols of himself

Attacks and sues private, state, and federal entities over constitutional rights/extortion

Attacks on trans including troops

Attacks the independence of the FED

Pro Child labor legislation

Gets rid of price caps on medicine like insulin

Reverses student loan forgiveness

Tries to reverse overdraft fee protection

Reverses climate legislation/guts epa

Violation of Separation of powers /criminal contempt

Mass Illegal Deportations

Masked secret police kidnapping people

Revoked citizenship for hundreds of thousands of refugees

Mass protests in all 50 states

Didn’t know about dead soldiers in Lithuania/golfed with Saudis instead of being there for dignified transfer of bodies

Didn’t release Epstein Files

Says “these things happen” after Florida school shooting

No “no tax on tips/overtime”

Brain worm autism theory/ persons list

Fruit loops made with real colors

SOH gets robbed and does glam shoot with foreign prisoners

DOI lies under oath

A1 sauce secretary of education

Trump GOLD card for Russian oligarchs

Announces military parade for his birthday

“Got rid” of PaPer straWs

Made shower heads Great Again

Baby bonus/mommy medals

100ft flag pole at the White House

GulF of AmEriCA
If you can't stomach the stuff you say you can't stomach, then how in the hell can you justify being on board with this?

This is why we say you're being manipulated, squeen. Even a single one of the items listed above is a horrifying thing (that you JUST SAID you're not on board with), but you're out here literally applauding them.
 

The1True

8, 8, I forget what is for
I will not change minds here & will again retreat into silence after this post.
Aw, don't be this way, dude. You're a grumpy old white poop and so are most of the rest of us here. When you weigh in on a LOTR post with talking points strait out of the manosphere, it seems a little disingenuous to feel butthurt when you get shouted down for it.

It's upsetting when the modern world intrudes on the cozy old hobbies and interests of our youth that some of us have chosen to take refuge in. It's threatening. This is our safe place. The instinct is to lash out, to drive the new away. Perhaps a more healthy way to look at it, though, is how amazing it is to have our children take interest in the things that captivated us at that age. To be amazed that the incredible new directions they take it. Breathing new life into our dusty dreams. Sometimes, it's not the story we would have written. Sometimes it's objectively stupid just as the adaptations of our favourite books in the 80's were frequently terrible. But it's still awesome to see nerd-dom alive and kicking. Stop rejecting it. To do so is to reject your own children, to refuse to see a possible future through their eyes. To only see the bleak end of your own world and wish the same for everyone else around you.

Look at the people arguing with you. They haven't dropped a cone of silence. Not because they want to dunk on some fashy troll online, but because even the people who find your prickly and adversarial on this forum seem to think you're worth bringing back to the table. Or at the very least talking you down from the ledge you're on.

We're here for you, man.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Aw, don't be this way, dude. You're a grumpy old white poop and so are most of the rest of us here. When you weigh in on a LOTR post with talking points strait out of the manosphere, it seems a little disingenuous to feel butthurt when you get shouted down for it.
Don't misunderstand. I am not butt-hurt or even upset, but I am muzzling myself out of politeness. Folks are getting triggered, and the board is suppose to be non-political. If I keep my opinions to myself, it helps keep relative peace. Y'all can nod along to the common world-view without rebuttal.

@DP: Most the items on your list I see from a starkly different perspective (you might want to diversify sources just a bit yourself), and am 100% OK with. Precisely what I voted for, which, like most of my 35 year voting history, has been to disrupt the status quo. Not an fan of cozy, entrenched parties & life-long privilege with a monopoly on political power. Still think Ross Perot would have been a great president. Ron Paul too. :)
 
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squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Dammit squeen, this is your problem. If you had any sane sense of how things work, you'd not have taken anything Bernier says seriously. The PPC is a fringe party of ultra-right-wingers and verifiable bigots; they're the Proud Boys of Canadian politics. The fact the you even considered them a valid source of anything proves that you are so deep into the echo chamber that even your attempts to broaden internationally are stuck in the echo chamber.

Seriously, who pointed you to them? Never trust that source for anything ever again. It's like suggesting Mein Kampf as a primary research source. I don't say this as a Leftist trying to keep you away from the "the truth"; I say this as someone who can literally watch you being manipulated in real time, and it breaks my heart.
I do have many problems. Here's one: I find myself in the horns of a dilemma.

Should I:

(a) Listen to Bernier himself speak for 1 hour and judge for myself.
--- O R ---
(b) Act on the advise of DP (who I think is foolish on almost every other topic), and based on an ad hominem attack against Bernier, censor my expose to his ideas?

Oy! I am perplexed. I just don't know what the right thing to do is. I am so lost in this mixed-up world. If only I had a "Big Brother" who could guide me in all things...
 
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Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
I were to guess, it's the cavalier attitude towards climate change that is most shocking to @Malrex, so here's a plot for added context (made with an AI).
Please don't assume what I think and use it as a platform for your agenda. Thank you.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Please don't assume what I think and use it as a platform for your agenda. Thank you.
Sorry. What did you mean by "wow"? That was just my guess, given so little to go on.

Also...agenda? Is that what the kids are calling opinions these days?
 
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Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Don't misunderstand. I am not butt-hurt or even upset, but I am muzzling myself out of politeness. Folks are getting triggered, and the board is suppose to be non-political. If I keep my opinions to myself, it helps keep relative peace. Y'all can nod along to the common world-view without rebuttal.

@DP: Most the items on your list I see from a starkly different perspective (you might want to diversify sources just a bit yourself), and am 100% OK with. Precisely what I voted for, which, like most of my 35 year voting history, has been to disrupt the status quo. Not an fan of cozy, entrenched parties & life-long privilege with a monopoly on political power. Still think Ross Perot would have been a great president. Ron Paul too. :)
I'm curious where your line in the sand is. What thing or things could the Trump administration do that would cause them to lose your support?
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I'm curious where your line in the sand is. What thing or things could the Trump administration do that would cause them to lose your support?
I voted for him in 2016 precisely because both the Democrats AND Republican parties hated him. A true outsider.

In 2019, I was listening solely to NPR and bought the whole J6 yarn, although "insurrection" always struck me as a bridge too far (i.e. no day-after plan, no support by the military, no one brought weapons, etc.). Similarly, his election denial made him seem like a sore loser---as was its intent.

I have learned more and slowly developed a very different opinion of both events. (We've been doing this same sort of stuff oversea for 80 years, why not try it at home?...looking at you 2015 Smith-Mundt Modernization Act).

So that was one line: a president who I perceived (at the time) as being unwilling to concede power. I am sure there are others. Despite what you think, if I thought he was truly corrupt or a warmonger (or senile)...I would immediately withdraw support. Instead I think I've finally located where the true corruption lies. "Fake news" indeed!

(An small aside: Neo-cons want war with Russia and/or Iran, and have been pushing for it pretty hard.)

Interestingly enough, Trump was still proud of "Operation Warps Speed" for COVID vax, coming into the election. The MAHA folks set him straight, and now we have the lab-leak and Fauci's gain-of-function evil for all to see on the official government website. This was the movement moving Trump. RJK Jr and Nicole Shanahan (both former abused Democrats) coming over to MAGA was huge. Butler, PA was a inflection point in history. Everything changed at after that.

I guess it all boils down to this for me: if there is a quasi-permanent ruling class making all the decisions that effect our lives in ways big and small (light bulbs!?! shower heads!?!), then that makes everyone else slaves. That's why I try to give supports to things that knee-cap the elites and limit government. Constant churn. Maximal freedom. Drag all the covert crap out into the daylight (and unshackle the internet/press) so We the People can make informed decisions.

But you've tricked me into rambling on about politics past my deadline.
 
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squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
So, there is no line then, nothing they do could make them lose your support.
Are you being purposely obtuse? I spoke honestly. You answer with crass rhetoric? As I suspected, I am wasting time answering your questions, they are only intended to trap.

The proper reply, you disingenuous motherf***ker, was "thanks for taking the time and effort to answer my question".
 
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Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Are you being purposely obtuse? I spoke honestly. You answer with crass rhetoric? As I suspected, I am wasting time answering your questions, they are only intended to trap.

The proper reply, you disingenuous motherf***ker, was "thanks for taking the time and effort to answer my question".
Apologies, I see I missed a line. Thank you for answering my question.

Follow-up question. What kind of evidence would it require to show that he was indeed corrupt, a warmonger, or senile, and from what sources?

EDIT: If we keep going with this, we might want to move it to a new thread. There is a lot of good stuff in here from before this article started, and I would have to have Bryce nuke the whole thing because we are off side.
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Sorry. What did you mean by "wow"? That was just my guess, given so little to go on.

Also...agenda? Is that what the kids are calling opinions these days?
Your arrogance.
Your guess was off the mark.
Your follow up with referring to me as a 'kid' is also not appreciated.
But to follow your rules, thank you motherfu*ker for taking the time to answer a question or opinion I didn't ask for.

I come here for D&D content and your posts lately are far from that. Perhaps keep them to "X" where you have linked that you enjoyed getting your political info from.

Thank you for your consideration.
 

DangerousPuhson

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Should I:

(a) Listen to Bernier himself speak for 1 hour and judge for myself.
--- O R ---
(b) Act on the advise of DP (who I think is foolish on almost every other topic), and based on an ad hominem attack against Bernier, censor my expose to his ideas?
"Show me proof that I am wrong"

"Here is proof"

"Fake news! Show me proof that I am in an echo chamber"

"Here is proof"

"Ad hominem! Show me proof that my sources are biased"

"Here is proof"

"Censorship! I am not going to listen to you"

You don't argue in good faith, squeen.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
@DP:
I am being genuine in my efforts to response to points raised directly to me, but that does not imply automatically conceding when I am not convinced. Your counter-points seem surface-level and inconclusive to me & that is the honest truth. Adults can live with ideological disagreement. Bringing someone around to your viewpoint is a slow process. To assume that it might be instantaneous after a few sweeping statements is, again, quite naive. Here's an example, you said:

Even a single one of the items listed above is a horrifying thing (that you JUST SAID you're not on board with), but you're out here literally applauding them.
Here are some list items that are not "horrifying" to me:
1) 100' flag pole --- does not horrify (self-evident)
2) failing to achieve peace in Ukraine yet, despite making an attempt --- does not horrify
3) Fruit Loops made with real colors --- does not horrify (apparently you don't use petrochemical dyes in Canada either)

None of this is convincing to me. Much of the remainder of the list is more nuanced, and would spark long debates that would (like abortion) grind down to some tough fundamental principle of morality which few can agree 100%, so let's skip it.

For me, the most informative point introduced was from Beoric who suggested Bernier's party is currently running at 1.4% in the polls. I did not know that and it's an important context---but again is an indirect argument and not sufficient to rebut the actual ideological content. You can be in the minority and still not be wrong (e.g. "One Hundred Authors Against Einstein" ). That's the essence of ad hominem, and it's very frequently deployed by the establishment---discredit the source while side-stepping the core content. Not saying you did that everywhere, but definitely in the post I responded to.

I am SERIOUSLY done for now. There will be no more replies for a few weeks, no matter what you throw at me. @Beoric is right, we've (all) abused Bryce's D&D forum. Did you have fun?
 

DangerousPuhson

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Here are some list items that are not "horrifying" to me:
1) 100' flag pole --- does not horrify (self-evident)
2) failing to achieve peace in Ukraine yet, despite making an attempt --- does not horrify
3) Fruit Loops made with real colors --- does not horrify (apparently you don't use petrochemical dyes in Canada either)
So you've found three things to not be "horrified" about on a list with dozens of other entries... it follows that you DO actually find the rest of the list to be egregious (otherwise you'd have listed them as "not horrifying"), you've just chosen to deliberately ignore them because three things don't meet your criteria of "horrifying". You might need a taller ladder for all this cherrypicking.

You certainly follow your party's adage about ignoring the evidence of your eyes and ears quite nicely squeen. You've ignored a laundry list of shitty behavior because you aren't outraged enough by Froot Loops. I will say this - for someone who hates "woke" people so much, you sure do an excellent job of keeping yourself asleep to reality; at least you're not a hypocrite in *that* regard.
 

DangerousPuhson

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
squeen said:
Your counter-points seem surface-level and inconclusive to me & that is the honest truth. Adults can live with ideological disagreement. Bringing someone around to your viewpoint is a slow process. To assume that it might be instantaneous after a few sweeping statements is, again, quite naive
I've learned three things about you in this time squeen:

1) No amount of evidence will convince you of anything, unless it comes from certain sources (that you refuse to question) and reinforces what you already believe.

2) You do not understand the difference between good sources and bad ones. X is not a valid source for anything. Any idiot can say anything they want on X (it's why Republicans love it so much!). Ditto Facebook. Neither is Infowars, OAN, FOX Entertainment "News", Tucker Carlson, Newsmax, nor any other certifiable propaganda outlets.

3) You do not actually want any sources of information. You've dismissed a few things as either "fake news", as "ad hominem", as "propaganda", or as "not substantial enough". Giving you evidence is like shouting into bottomless pit.

squeen said:
2) failing to achieve peace in Ukraine yet, despite making an attempt --- does not horrify
Dude straight-up blamed Ukraine for Russia invading Ukraine, and withdrew support based on not wearing a suit and not groveling enough - "making an attempt"? You jest. Your President is in Putin's pocket. Prove me wrong.

squeen said:
For me, the most informative point introduced was from Beoric who suggested Bernier's party is currently running at 1.4% in the polls. I did not know that and it's an important context---but again is an indirect argument and not sufficient to rebut the actual ideological content.
Context does indeed matter. Ask yourself - why does a source you trust as gospel only have 1.4% support of the population? What is more likely: a massive information suppression conspiracy aimed to crush the few people who know the *real* truth, or a few stupid crackpots being deliberately ignored because their ideas are bad?
 
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