TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Are you talking about the part in No Country For Old Men in the diner??
Dream House of the Nether Prince
- Thread starter TerribleSorcery
- Start date
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
This is a fair assessment! That said, I always thought is was pretty cool how, as a result, a player of a LG paladin could find themselves sharing a faction with a LE devil due to a shared affinity for stern law enforcement; or a CG ranger could find themselves in league with a Slaad due to a strong love of liberty. It sort of broke alignment down into its component philosophies. But you're right, many people didn't need to be lead by the nose to these cut-and-dry philosophic factions as political forces. And I'm not saying this turned my group into story-gaming thespians, but it definitely enriched our game with elements that had not been there before.
I agree wholeheartedly; I always fucking detested the raging douche-canoe who said he'd 'grown out of Iron Maiden'.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Sorry, I keep coming back to this. There's got to be some progression, doesn't there? I mean, when I was a boy our characters had like a 600 Str and +20 Lightsabers and as DM I barely looked at the dice before deciding how the fight would go. Our characters were a combination of baseball stats and young-male power fantasies. Surely there's room for that to advance without straying into insufferable academic territory.
And going to this Kickball fantasy; I break the TLJ newspaper out for the dude who comes to the game insisting it must be played in its purist form as inscribed in an ancient and hard-to-find 'Soccer-Baseball' rulebook from another century and ignoring all the commonly accepted customs of play that have become part of the game since.
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
When all your friends wear leather jackets... eventually you hear Fear of the Dark enough times.
Enough. Times.
EOTB
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Yes, of course. I am not talking about those who take their game seriously while still comfortable with what it is and isn't.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
You're one of those Primus guys aren't you...
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
I'm more the Powerslave generation...
But yeah, this is fair. You're allowed to get sick of something. But to say I grew out of the redbox DnD my mom bought me back in 5th grade is insulting to everyone who found everything they needed to have a good time in that box. I spent exactly 2 sessions with the nerdlord who insisted my AD&D was purile and I needed to play in his truly enlightened Rolemaster campaign to see how adults play, before going back to bashing giants in the Glacial Rift with my bros.
Planescape didn't add any rules or alter the game. It showed us how, within the existing framework we were used to, we could experience more enriching fantasy adventure by actually talking to NPC's for more than just basic trade/adventure-progression purposes and that we could think about our motivations for play beyond simple power fantasies. I understand many people reached these conclusions without having to tromp around a hyper-high-fantasy city full of cartoon caricature citizens and prescribed philosophies, but that was the moment of enlightenment for us. Still bashing monsters and powergaming our stats, but now with even MOHR enjoyment at the gaming table!
rredmond
A FreshHell to Contend With
So many words in these threads, I think I need more coffee. Hey @TerribleSorcery who did that cover?
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
In fairness, I had the same reaction to the vastness of the original Greyhawk setting.
To comment generally on what @EOTB has been saying, I just want to point out (a) that the game was originally designed by adults for adults, and (b) that there are plenty of adult applications for role-playing that belie your assertion that the game isn't suited to exploring adult themes.
In fact, as players get older they are generally confronted with moral themes baked into the original game, starting with "where do half-orcs come from?" and "what do we do with baby orcs?" We aren't talking about adults playing a child's game here, we are talking about people learning to play an adult's game when they are children.
Given the strong narrative elements in D&D, perhaps a better analogy is to various forms of storytelling. A child does not tell the same sort of story as an adult, and a 20-something adult does not tell the same sort of story as a 50-something adult. As a DM I can narrate violence and portray evil in a cartoony fashion, or I can portray them in a realistic fashion, or a moralistic fashion, or even in a fashion that glorifies them. I can do that regardless of the mechanics of the game (in a way I couldn't do with chess, for example) because it is a role-playing game with strong narrative elements.
EOTB
So ... slow work day? Every day?
War gamers did not clamor for fantasy elements to be added so they could explore how half-orcs came to be, just as they don't play Normandy '44 to explore the horrors of war. If anyone is exploring life themes for the first time in D&D (and thus, a necessity) then their parents failed them.
The storytelling part is key - when someone tries to tell a story with D&D they must incorporate the elements of story. In most ways, story and game can't be co-equals; one must submit to the other.
The storytelling part is key - when someone tries to tell a story with D&D they must incorporate the elements of story. In most ways, story and game can't be co-equals; one must submit to the other.
Last edited:
I know torment. I saw the book and pondered. But to escape? I suspect this is coming.
Sticky thoughts attracted me. That is in and of itself notable.
But are these thoughts the realm of fiction or made to be manifest.
I suspect both is the answer, with everyone refusing to talk the fence.
Sticky thoughts attracted me. That is in and of itself notable.
But are these thoughts the realm of fiction or made to be manifest.
I suspect both is the answer, with everyone refusing to talk the fence.
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Definitely not!!! I am a metalhead, I own probably 8 leather jackets. Iron Maiden really doesn't give me a kick since about my early '20s. It just sounds like classic rock. I love that some people still dig that stuff but I need a much stronger hit if I wanna get off the ground:
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
You assume the intention of the creators matters to the interpretation of the creation. The D&D rules aren't a constitution.
Who said anything about exploring life themes for the first time?
Who said anything about trying to tell a story? Adult themes can also come from from emergent play. Again, like what to do with captives, orc children, etc. If I'm a neutral fucking arbiter, and the characters' murder-hoboing would elicit a particular response from the NPCs - pleadings for their lives, crying, fearing for what happens to their kids - then that is what the fucking NPCs are going to do, and the players can decide where they are going to go from there. A huge chunk of the games is about the world responding to the characters' actions, and adults may well identify and portray different responses than children would.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Nice one! My buddies didn't overplay Maiden fortunately. There's a Wasp album that now makes me physically sick to hear though
Also, there's not enough weed in the world to make me want to hear the aimless noodling of Liquid Tension Experiment ever again. To be fair, I gave as good as I got on the fields of roommate psyop torture. I'd break out Afrocelt Soundsystem during Epic 40k tabletop battles. I'm pretty sure that goes against the Geneva Conventions...
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Your dungeon riddle rooms must be a total nightmare...
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Okay but, wait... now I'm not sure what we're discussing anymore. So establish a baseline for me E, are you saying that at your table, D&D is almost purely a small-units tactical simulation? Like, it's mostly about the challenges for you and story is just a framework used to string everything together requiring a minimum of actual playing in character? Like your players are NOT making decisions based on 'what their character would do'?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this style of play btw, I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from here.
Alignment should be codified if only to provide a good shorthand for monster dispositions. Can you imagine having to type up the various nuances surrounding it into every fucking monster manual entry?
Second week of mourning commences:
Second week of mourning commences:
TerribleSorcery
Should be playing D&D instead
Prince I am so confused about the videos. What are we mourning???
A grand assault on Orcus's lair, aborted before its time. Orcus won this fucking round.