AI art

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
It's all the rage and will probably put all the Magic The Gathering artists out of business some day.

Here's the impressionistic AI art someone did for Huso's dungeon, Zjelwyin Fall



and here's a YouTube video about some of it's ridiculous abuses

 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Seems like that would save a lot of money for cover art.
Kinda crappy for artists though.
Im starting to think seriously of taking some drawing classes or something when I return. Cant beat the power of taking something from your imagination and representing it on paper.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Do it, man! You won't regret it. Drawing is totally meditative.

There's so much free instruction on-line these days too. Gobble it up before it disappears behind a corporate pay-wall. The days of the wild and hopeful (free) internet are quickly disappearing.
 
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Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Do man! You won't regret it. Drawing is totally meditative.

There's so much free instruction on-line these days too. Gobble it up before it disappears behind a corporate pay-wall. The days of the wild and hopeful (free) internet are quickly disappearing.
Do you have some favorite sites? I like the style you do.
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
That is very kind of you to say. I'm gathering up some references for a more detailed response.
Cool...man down--hurt my ankle and off trail so need something to do now before I go back to work and the mundane once more...
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
cut it short by 250 miles...but fires were cutting things short anyways. Hiked close to 2,000 miles (out of 2,653) so feel like I got the experience anyways. You guys might be stuck with me again. Doesn't seem too serious--just overused tendons.
 

Grützi

Should be playing D&D instead
cut it short by 250 miles...but fires were cutting things short anyways. Hiked close to 2,000 miles (out of 2,653) so feel like I got the experience anyways. You guys might be stuck with me again. Doesn't seem too serious--just overused tendons.


Glad you're allright ;)
Looking forward to getting bothered about Adventures by you again :p
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
250 miles was the ENTIRE length my wife and I hiked in Spain.

2,000 miles is insane. Glad you are alright.

If you are itching to get started on art --- go to www.proko.com. It has a whole series of free video, both on-sight, and linked to YouTube, where it all started. The "new" web site makes it hard to find the free core courses, now buried under layers and layers of fluff and and "premium" (pay) content.

I would start with the series "Figure Drawing Fundamentals, and then...as you get frustrated with your inability to draw certain parts of the human body (and you will), hunt and peck through the Anatomy of the Human Body.

Also, take some time to watch the free videos in the Shading Course series.

Again, skip all the "pay for it" lessons --- they might be good, but you can get the info elsewhere on the internet once you know what to search for.

Ultimately I think you need the following to make art work for you
  1. the desire to draw (you have that!)
  2. an basic understanding of what style you want to draw (who are your art heroes? Dig backwards in time too!)
  3. an good understanding of the components of the 3D object you are trying to draw (anatomy, etc.)
  4. an understanding of how light physically works in order to shade
  5. an understanding of linear perspective (how things shrink into the distance)
  6. the realization that good art is not just reproduction, it is an exercise in Visual Design --- that's call composition. Certain shapes, arranged certain ways please the eye. This is the most elusive subject. Hyper-realism (i.e. perfect photographic reproduction) is generally not considered good illustrative art.
  7. Don't worry about your "style" --- that will happened, no matter how hard you try to prevent it.
On each one of these I could write you an essay, summing up my mental journey of the past 2 years. It would definitely fall into the TL;DR category for most, and also against the Zen proverb of "When the Student is ready, the Master speaks", because it just would seem too irrelevant and useless.

That said, here is the ultimate secret to becoming a passable artist:
Practice drawing something everyday.


To that I'll add the following disorganized tidbits:
  • while sketching think about 3D objects and how they project onto 2D paper -- DO NOT think of outlines. This is why you learn anatomy, perspective, etc. You also need to learn to be a good observer of nature.
  • relax and be messy -- every single thing you draw, you will fail to capture...and will have to "settle" with the result
  • shameless copy art that you like --- this is so essential that it has a special name in art schools: "Master Studies", i.e. you are copying a Master.
  • every drawing goes through a FAIL stage when it looks like total crap --- you learn to push past that point
  • VALUE = SHAPE : we perceive the shape of an object by it's changes in darkness. artist's call darkness "value". The upshot of this is that you cannot create a fake 3D image without the ability to inject more than one level of black/gray. This is the act of "shading". I am mentioning this because I think it's invaluable to have both a light (2H) and dark (2B or greater) pencil for graphite sketching. (Also a kneaded eraser.)
  • the history of art mirrors the history of printing/reproduction. Classic D&D art took a lot from the late 19th century "Golden Age of Illustration" which was the transition period between wood-cut (think Guttenburg press) and full-color lithographic printing which enabled folks like Norman Rockwell to publishing paintings (as oppose to pen and ink line-art) in magazines. What's ubiquitous today is the result of another sea-change that came with digital painting technology --- it has it's own look and feel. You may have to eventually decide what tools you are most comfortable with (traditional or digital), depending on what look you want to achieve.
  • (photo) references are a two-edged sword --- they will boost the quality of your work, but can also become a crutch and limiter
Here's a scene sketched by Frank Franzetta:
ff2.jpg
the difference between you, starting out, and Franzetta is two-fold. First, he's thinking about light/dark shapes and composition at this stage, not lines. Second, he is practiced enough at rendering techniques that he can put in the hours necessary to transform these blobs into something that can fool the human eye into recognizing it as an object. (Really, that's all you are doing. The observer's brain does half the work! It's not a lazy hack---it's actually better when you leave certain things vague. There's a pitfall known as "over-working" a drawing.)

And for inspiration look at this wonderful (small) Conan anthology illustration by Mark Schultz. It's so simply rendered and yet so evocative in telling it's story. That's it's magic. That's great art, IMO.
markSchultz113.jpg

I know I've done something right when I'm taking a photo of something I drew, and my iPhone's facial recognition software puts the little yellow box around the figure's head---it means I fooled a computer, will it fool a human too?

Here's a recent Muddy Colors post that show a similar (crappy) initial stage for a drawing:



So...don't get discouraged. In a year, you'll know lots of tricks to get past this initial mess and towards something that can fool your friends and family into thinking it's a 3D thing. At first it will take you hours to make something awful, but in only a few short weeks you'll be able to make something equally awful in only a dozen minutes!

...but only if you practice for 20-30 minutes (almost) every day.

Cheers.

EDIT: One final note. Art schools apparently went to hell in the 1960's and stopped teaching the basics of how to draw. We are seeing, in the last few decades, a turn-around from that slide into "self expression is all that matters". When an art school claims to be Atlier style...that's a good indicator that you'll get some technical rigor.
 
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Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?


Glad you're allright ;)
Looking forward to getting bothered about Adventures by you again :p
May be a bit...still homeless and flying to Florida for a bit. BUT....I think people need to see the Shell of Telvion someday...
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
@squeen Thanks!!! This is all very helpful.
I think I need to find my patience. I have a lot I want to do and get impatient when I need to learn something new---wish I could just plug in like the matrix.
Last question. You mentioned 2h pencil and 2b pencil...do you recommend a type of drawing paper or pad or anything else?
You nailed it with Frazetta--Im thinking of lines not the light/dark shapes...
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
@squeen Thanks!!! This is all very helpful.
I think I need to find my patience. I have a lot I want to do and get impatient when I need to learn something new---wish I could just plug in like the matrix.
Last question. You mentioned 2h pencil and 2b pencil...do you recommend a type of drawing paper or pad or anything else?
You nailed it with Frazetta--Im thinking of lines not the light/dark shapes...
My favorite pencil is the Staedtler Mars Technico 2mm Lead Holder. You can put either 2H or 4B leads in it (to name a few), and with the associated rotary sharpener, you can get an insanely fine point. Also, the diameter of the lead is thick enough you can hyper-extend it from the holder and shade with the side like the Proko guys will try to get you to do by whittling charcoal pencils with a razor in the videos.

Also, I really like a fine 0.5mm mechanical pencil for detail. I have the Pentel GraphGear 1000 and got some 2B lead for it. The smaller lead lets you fill in the nooks an crannies of the paper.

Different papers do different things, but currently I am happiest with the durability of the Strathmore 400 series. Smooth paper is probably easiest at first, otherwise you might get frustrated that you can't create small details because of the paper's grain.

Honestly, when you are starting out, there's a temptation to think the supplies are very important. I think that they ultimately are not. Once you get control of yourself (and at first you are going to press too hard, erase a lot, and break through paper---especially with the harder leads), you'll eventually have the muscles to adapt to the medium, for the most part.

Keep in mind that you are training your body-mind interface like an athlete. Repetition, determination, and patience is key to muscle-memory. One does art because part of you says you must---not for any tangible result. Note that I have never mentioned "talent" because I think, for the most part, it's just 99% effort. That's why it's meditative and a life-long journey. Turning it into a job kills part of it, even while it forces you to get better faster because you can prioritize the time it takes in your schedule.

If/when AI does take art away from humans (as a job), in a way similar to how photography killed the Golden Age of Illustration (in magazines), there will still always be the need to create art inside of us. It goes back to drawing on cave walls. It's the same motive that drives us to produce D&D adventures. We yearn to create.
 
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squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
One final tip --- lines do no exist in the physical world. The only thing that creates something close to it is a surface turning away from the light.

That said, line art is perhaps my favorite, but it's useful to always remember it's an invented abstraction required by the early print medium. Many, if not most objects, in a painting, will not have a dark edge.

Look at the art of Franklin Booth if you want to understand the inventive beauty of line art.

Franzetta got his start doing line art in black & white EC comics...but what he became most famous for was his oil paintings.

Pen & ink is a cruel master with it's binary nature. Graphite pencil, with it's gray tones, can be more "painterly", and is more forgiving in many ways.

Despite later generations scoffing at 1e art --- what Trampier (in particular) achieved using traditional wood-cut looking line art is a hundred times more difficult to achieve than what your typical 20-something art-school idiot does with Photoshop. Only the uninformed thinks that's "better art" because it's in color and looks more like a photo. Line art is quantitatively harder (just like oil painting is harder than digital painting)...even if ultimately many don't enjoy that style and think it's archaic (which it is!).

 
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The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Sanford col-erase non-photo blue pencils. And then go over it in 2B or Ink. The blue pencil won't scan (or will scan very faintly and is easy to remove in PS/Gimp/whatever). The feeling of a fresh col-erase on sketch pad is exceptional.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I like this guy's videos because of his clear mental process (and accent!). His one on linear perspective is masterful.

This link is to Episode 0 in his instructional series which I just discovered.

 
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Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Alright...ordered the supplies...thanks!
Hoping to watch the videos later this week.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Alright...ordered the supplies...thanks!
Hoping to watch the videos later this week.
Morpheus: “You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.”
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
More on the OP topic:

 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Wow...pretty cool...but kinda lame at the same time. Id be a bit peeved if I was an artist.
 
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